[Lenaxia]

Hey guys, I know for the most part this isn't available in the US but does anyone have a reliable distributor of the ESP?

The normaly 5w30 SAE isn't LL-04 certified.

I found these guys, but they seem to be the ONLY online vendor of ESP in the US which is crazy.

http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/store/page95.html

Any other recommendations? I'm going to run to the pep boys and autozones in the area around me tomorrow but I don't recall seeing it before (I put in the regular 5w30 in last time before I knew it wasnt even LL-01 certified)

[F32Fleet]

Pepboys stocks it but any major chain can order it.

[Tom K.]

Is there a compelling reason not to use BMW branded 5w30? Last time I checked, it was cheaper than Mobil 1 - especially with a BMWCCA discount.

Tom

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

Is there a compelling reason not to use BMW branded 5w30? Last time I checked, it was cheaper than Mobil 1 - especially with a BMWCCA discount.

Tom

Not on a naturally aspirated non-M engine although M1 does keep the engine internals incredibly clean. "Castrol Red" (red tinge) seems to develop on engines and it's probably just a little varnish.

Personally I would love to get my hands on Castrol Edge 0w-40 since it's driving season.

[Lenaxia]

I've just used M1 on my previous cars so I've continued to use it, though I've been reading conflicting things about the LL-04 and LL-01 as TrackRat mentioned.

[CirrusSR22]

I'm pretty sure Track Rat is correct; you should stick with LL-01 in North America unless you have a diesel.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

I'm pretty sure Track Rat is correct; you should stick with LL-01 in North America unless you have a diesel.

Track rat is correct.

Here's the skinny.

LL04 is a Mid/Low-SAPS version of LL01. The only difference from LL01 is that these oils are ACEA C3 and therefore have lower allowed levels of sulphated ash, phosphorus, sulphur in order to protect emissions systems (three way catalysts, DPF, SCR, etc).

Now a by product of being ACEA C3 is that the TBN is lower as well (No llower than 6) whereas oils w/out the ACEA Cx rating have higher TBN (Min is 10 for ACEA A3/B4). TBN is a measure of how much life is in the oil with regards to it's ability to neutralize acids. Some oils have TBN which starts high and then drops fast, others have a lower starting number but decreases at a lower rate.

BMW like Mercedes Benz made the decision that these oils were not suitable for long drain intervals in their U.S. cars due to the higher levels of sulphur and possibly the existance of ethanol when compared to Europe.

This is why in the U.S. only diesel cars get LL04 (MB 229.51) oil since there's no ethanol and the sulphur is IIRC 10-15 ppm.

Interestingly VW doesn't feel the same way.

In the end my opinion is that you could actually use LL04 if you're doing a mid-OCI oil change because long drains aren't an issue since you're only going ~6-7k miles on the oil vs 10-15k.

Remember the LL04 oils have the same ACEA A3/B4 rating as LL01 but they also have the C3 (M1 ESP is C3/C2 not to mention it even passes the fuel economy test of A5/B5 with an HTHS over 3.5).

[AlanAZ]

I've just used M1 on my previous cars so I've continued to use it

Then use M1 0w40. It is on the approved list for this car, the 0 cold weight provides superior protection on cold starts and in colder weather than 5w, and the 40 hot weight, better protection in hot weather. It is readily available.

It is also the factory fill (initial and dealer oil changes) on high performance cars: AMG Mercedes, Porsche and Austin Martin.

[Lenaxia]

Socom and everyone else, thanks for clarifying. 0w40 it is.

[123Britt]

For short OCI say 5k -- I am led to believe that M1 ESP 5W-30 performs better in the N54 / N55 engine than the M1 0W-40 that I have been using for years.
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Does anyone have info backing this up. I think the specs back that up - only issue is that the US Fuel depletes the TBN -- so 5k OCI would be necessary. The result -- potentially less gunk build-up in the intakes.
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Hope someone has some feedback here??

[biscut]

Originally Posted by 123Britt

For short OCI say 5k -- I am led to believe that M1 ESP 5W-30 performs better in the N54 / N55 engine than the M1 0W-40 that I have been using for years.
.
.
Does anyone have info backing this up. I think the specs back that up - only issue is that the US Fuel depletes the TBN -- so 5k OCI would be necessary. The result -- potentially less gunk build-up in the intakes.
.
.
.
Hope someone has some feedback here??

How is a non-DI engine depleting M1 0-40 but 5k???

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by 123Britt

For short OCI say 5k -- I am led to believe that M1 ESP 5W-30 performs better in the N54 / N55 engine than the M1 0W-40 that I have been using for years.

M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is an LL-04 oil, and is the current spec in EU.

Originally Posted by biscut

How is a non-DI engine depleting M1 0-40 but 5k???

Presume you mean "by" rather than "but"? LL-04 oils start with less TBN than LL-01 oils, and (can be said) to wear out faster on the higher sulfur US/CA fuels. EU sulfur spec is 10 ppm in gasoline and diesel, while it's ~200 ppm gasoline, 15 ppm diesel in US/CA.

[biscut]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is an LL-04 oil, and is the current spec in EU.



Presume you mean "by" rather than "but"? LL-04 oils start with less TBN than LL-01 oils, and (can be said) to wear out faster on the higher sulfur US/CA fuels. EU sulfur spec is 10 ppm in gasoline and diesel, while it's ~200 ppm gasoline, 15 ppm diesel in US/CA.

Interesting....thanks.