[D's Bimmer]

So I have recently ordered the Front M3 Upper/Lower Control Arm parts. I decided against ordering the rear arms/bits. The rationale was that the rear doesn't take nearly as much abuse and thus didn't need to be replaced as soon as the fronts.

Should I have just ordered the rear parts and done it all at the same time? I am not doing the subframe bushings though.

[dohctec]

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

So I have recently ordered the Front M3 Upper/Lower Control Arm parts. I decided against ordering the rear arms/bits. The rationale was that the rear doesn't take nearly as much abuse and thus didn't need to be replaced as soon as the fronts.

Should I have just ordered the rear parts and done it all at the same time? I am not doing the subframe bushings though.

Most will tell you the fronts are all you need as it allows for most play in negative camber. I did this recently but decided to do the entire front and rear.

I guess it's really up to you and what you want/need. I just felt better knowing I had the set up on each corner.

Granted, I'm a BMW noob, so I'm just adding what I did. Subbed for other/vets opinions.

[hgmotorsports]

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

So I have recently ordered the Front M3 Upper/Lower Control Arm parts. I decided against ordering the rear arms/bits. The rationale was that the rear doesn't take nearly as much abuse and thus didn't need to be replaced as soon as the fronts.

Should I have just ordered the rear parts and done it all at the same time? I am not doing the subframe bushings though.

From your list of mods, the M3 rear suspension components would help you significantly with wheel hop under hard acceleration. The rear will become more planted under hard load and have less deflection. The oem rear suspension components are pretty flimsy.

-Mike

[135Pats]

The rear has a nasty tendency to squat and then slip out under sudden and/or heavy load. I would swap out the subframe bushings with M3 replacements or inserts before doing the rear arms, those really help settle the back end in a variety of situations.

[dohctec]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

The rear has a nasty tendency to squat and then slip out under sudden and/or heavy load. I would swap out the subframe bushings with M3 replacements or inserts before doing the rear arms, those really help settle the back end in a variety of situations.

No troll or sarcasm here but:

What do you exactly mean by squat and then split out?

[D's Bimmer]

Originally Posted by hgmotorsports

From your list of mods, the M3 rear suspension components would help you significantly with wheel hop under hard acceleration. The rear will become more planted under hard load and have less deflection. The oem rear suspension components are pretty flimsy.

-Mike

Thanks Mike.

Do I need the subframe bushings or can I do without those or go with something like Whitelines?

[D's Bimmer]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

The rear has a nasty tendency to squat and then slip out under sudden and/or heavy load. I would swap out the subframe bushings with M3 replacements or inserts before doing the rear arms, those really help settle the back end in a variety of situations.

My concern is the cost and labour. Seems rather expensive. What is the best way to do with while keeping labour down?

[hgmotorsports]

Originally Posted by dohctec

No troll or sarcasm here but:

What do you exactly mean by squat and then split out?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Pats means 'split out' as in deflection. There is no consistency with the rear oem suspension bits. Just look at their construction, lol.

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

Thanks Mike.

Do I need the subframe bushings or can I do without those or go with something like Whitelines?

Depends on how many miles you have. Are the M3 bushings better, yes. Do you need them, debatable, depending on your suspension setup. If you have the extra money then do it.

-Mike

[GreekboyD]

It all depends on what you want to do with the car. If you do the rear then the subrame bushings are a must IMO. Cost down? There is no cost down when you're doing this type of work. Cutting corners is the only way to keep costs down.

[135Pats]

Sorry guys, got distracted when typing that. I meant deflection and generally random behavior under sudden load inputs. Better subframe bushings will do more to alleviate that than the M3 rear arms. If you want to keep labor down, buy the inserts. They get you probably 80% of the way there without nearly the type of labor.

[dohctec]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Sorry guys, got distracted when typing that. I meant deflection and generally random behavior under sudden load inputs. Better subframe bushings will do more to alleviate that than the M3 rear arms. If you want to keep labor down, buy the inserts. They get you probably 80% of the way there without nearly the type of labor.

Interesting. Thanks for the share, now I feel better I got the front and rear set up

[D's Bimmer]

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

It all depends on what you want to do with the car. If you do the rear then the subrame bushings are a must IMO. Cost down? There is no cost down when you're doing this type of work. Cutting corners is the only way to keep costs down.

I definitely hear you on cutting corners. It's just that spending a $1000+ just on m3 rear subframe bushing is allot for a dd. I am hearing allot more about bushing inserts and wondering who can attest to their effectiveness as they are materially more cost effective.

[dohctec]

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

I definitely hear you on cutting corners. It's just that spending a $1000+ just on m3 rear subframe bushing is allot for a dd. I am hearing allot more about bushing inserts and wondering who can attest to their effectiveness as they are materially more cost effective.

One last bothersome note by myself:

Note: You can get the non branded M versions (which I read are the exact same, minus the trademark) for almost 40% less. (Stamped by TRW)

[D's Bimmer]

Originally Posted by dohctec

One last bothersome note by myself:

Note: You can get the non branded M versions (which I read are the exact same, minus the trademark) for almost 40% less. (Stamped by TRW)

The bulk of the rear subframe bushings upgrade is labour. It is a 7-8 hour job!

[GreekboyD]

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

The bulk of the rear subframe bushings upgrade is labour. It is a 7-8 hour job!

Could be done in much less time than that.

[dohctec]

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

Could be done in much less time than that.

I'm not home but from what I recall, I was billed 4 or 5 hours for this job. If even that.

I'll double check my paperwork when I get home from the office. But regardless, good point, I didn't even think of labor costs during my previous post.

[GreekboyD]

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

I definitely hear you on cutting corners. It's just that spending a $1000+ just on m3 rear subframe bushing is allot for a dd. I am hearing allot more about bushing inserts and wondering who can attest to their effectiveness as they are materially more cost effective.

It all depends on how long you intend to keep the car, track, have fun with it, etc. Click on my car (Garage List) to see what I've done to it. I have zero regrets and would do it all over again.

[JJH]

I too have a DD and did not know if replacing the rear arms was totally necessary for my circumstance (no track work intended). The front upper and lower arms did steering feel and precision once set up with a proper alignment. I did do the M3 rear sub frame bushes though because I run a tune and they have helped by eliminating the rear end squirm. It is a big job and my local shop did the full swap in 3 - 4 hrs max. as the whole sub-frame has to be dropped to install.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

I definitely hear you on cutting corners. It's just that spending a $1000+ just on m3 rear subframe bushing is allot for a dd. I am hearing allot more about bushing inserts and wondering who can attest to their effectiveness as they are materially more cost effective.

Talk to milifxs and chowbow. They've done the subframe bushing inserts and are pleased. It's worth a try for the minimal investment compared to dropping the subframe and replacing bushings. Addressing the rear subframe bushings is the #1 improvement for the rear of the car then toe arms for lateral stability then guide rods and upper links to reduce wheel hop.