[zgresh]

So...just got home from the UConn show in Hartford...but I forgot to mention that a MA statee got me on the pike east in Charlton coming home.

Highway tickets plain suck. Its obvious that every car is doing a casual 75...and i went to pass someone. Valentine 1 didn't even help me out here, cause just when i got parallel to the car, i hear the infamous laser noise. Shit. Im going 84 to pass the car, and i pull over immediately...knowing he got me. Sure enough, he comes rolling up in his cute unmarked ford explorer.

So you know he gave me a ticket. 84 in a 65. In the boxes where he could check (posted) (not posted) (LIDAR) (clocked) (radar) (estimated), the officer checked the Lidar box, which means laser.

What im questioning: the officer also checked the box that says "estimated". How does this make sense? Laser gives one clear reading to the officer. How would that be estimated speed? If he was tailing me, he would have checked the "estimated" box, because he would have just paced my car. So why would he check both lidar and estimated?

Would I be able to appeal this ticket, and maybe win because he was unclear on the means of how he clocked my speed?

I just dont wanna rack up that yearly insurance rate.Since this is my first ticket, i do believe that it does not show up on my record. Anything you guys can do to help would be appreciated.

[ska///235i]

Go to court and say that the driver in front was driving all over the highway and your first reaction was to avoid that car so you try to pass

[NEFARIOUS]

The most important thing when it comes to fighting a speeding ticket: DO NOT prove there was something wrong with your car; there's hardly any exceptions. ALWAYS challenge the speed-testing equipment, circumstances of when you were pulled over, and the environment at the time.

Unless there was something genuinely wrong with your car (e.g. the speedometer was broken as in showing 0 no matter where you went; compensating for BMW skew is hard to prove in court) and you have paperwork to prove it, NO judge would ever buy ANY excuse unless he doesn't happen to be a hardened asshole that comes with years on the bench. You can say your mom died, you had to shit really bad (when you didn't... If you shat your pants that's a whole 'nother story), what have you, and the answer could always be "well, you could've driven more carefully and gotten there at the same speed [or blah blah blah]. GUILTY."

Each bullet point is meant to be given the chance for the officer (who might be a lying sack of crap despite being under oath) to respond, not serially without a pause... Remember, some questions sound ridiculous, but since people within the law are known to be the grandaddy of all liars, their lack of evidence is your way out. DOCUMENTATION BEATS CONVERSATION.

Ask the officer in court:

• What equipment were you using to check for the alleged violation? (NOTE: "alleged" is very important in this sentence, otherwise you are admitting guilt)

ALL FORMS:

• When was your last calibration of the [radar/laser/vehicle's speedometer]
• Do you have written proof of that calibration? (you'd lose a lot of cops around here. Not all though.)
• How accurate is your calibration in relation to how it works in the real world?

RADAR:

• What is the accuracy of your tuning fork?
• When was the last time that was certified by the factory? (you'd typically lose him around this point)
• What surface was the tuning fork struck against?
• Will it produce a different tone if struck against a different surface?
• (if yes) What surface do you use the item against? What does the manual say to strike it against?
• How many power lines were in the area?
• What was the ambient temperature? Do you have an exact temperature reading and proof you can furnish to the court?
• As heat waves distort the path of the ultrasonic sound wave, were there any emanating from the roads?
• Were you sweeping the gun prior to fixing the laser on my car, or did you specifically target the car?
• Were you using a tripod or was it handheld?
• How far out exactly was my car from your testing location? (Especially if more than say, 300 feet) Given that distance, were you able to steadily hold it on my car, or were there any jolting or wobbling?
• Can you present the court evidence of those factors?

LASER (AKA LIDAR):

• As humidity significantly affects the accuracy of a laser, what was the humidity of both the location of where you were standing and the location of where it was tested or calibrated?
• What is the accuracy of the hygrometer, or the device used to check the humidity? Do you have any calibration records for that?
• What was the ambient temperature? Do you have an exact temperature reading and proof you can furnish to the court?
• As heat wave distorts all that we see, were there any emanating from the roads?
• Were you sweeping the gun prior to fixing the laser on my car, or did you specifically target the car?
• Were you using a tripod or was it handheld?
• How far out exactly was my car from your testing location? (Especially if more than say, 300 feet) Given that distance, were you able to steadily hold it on my car, or were there any jolting or wobbling?
• Are you able to provide a video of how steady you were holding the equipment when you were testing my car's speed?
• Was the sun behind me?
• Can you present the court evidence of those factors?

PACING (As in he pulls up behind you and follows your car):

• Was the speedometer calibrated by machine only, or was it compared on a real road?
• Is the calibration equipment accurate?
• Do you have the calibration certification with you?
• As the calibration facility's own calibration may be off, do you have the calibration facility's certification from the factory with you?
• What was your tire pressure when you paced me?
• What was temperature of the road?
• How long were you pacing my car?
• When you did, how certain can you say you matched my speeds exactly, as if the car was able to match my speeds exactly or was there a consistent variance?
• Most cars have analog speedometers, and depending on what speed you are going, a difference of 1 or 2 MPH may be noticed. From where you are sitting, how accurate would you say is your perspective? Did the speedometer calibration facility put that into consideration?

VASCAR (As in, he has 2 strips on the ground and calculates the time it takes for a car to go in between):

• Is the stopwatch or computerized testing equipment accurate?
• Do you have the certification with you to prove it?
• Since the initial calibration of the VASCAR is based on a test run with a vehicle, how accurate was that vehicle's calibration?
• Is the calibration equipment accurate?
• What was tire pressure of that vehicle?
• What was temperature of the road?
• Was the speedometer calibrated by machine only, or was it compared on a real road?
• Most cars have analog speedometers, and depending on what speed you are going, a difference of 1 or 2 MPH may be noticed. From where you are sitting, how accurate would you say is your perspective? Did the speedometer calibration facility put that into consideration?
• Is the timing device automatic, as in it will give you a speed automatically without user input, or does it only activate using a button?
• AUTOMATIC: Given that factor, let's say arguendo, a car is already decelerating within the zone, does it account for that?
• So you're saying that there is a redundancy method, such as a radar or laser?
• NONE: So if there is nothing to account for that, then how are you able to assert that you accurately measured the speed I was allegedly going? (Refer to appropriate questions within each section)
• CONTINUATION OF THE ABOVE OR MANUAL: Given that a split second can make a very big difference, such as if a car is going at 25 MPH, it is actually at 36.7 feet per second, but each MPH difference is roughly 1.4-1.5 feet per second difference, and having the 2 points set at 100 feet, there is even the possibility of a 30-40% chance of error. If it was 1,000 feet, it could theoretically be accurate within 1-2%, but that's only assuming that the person is going at a constant speed, but accelerating or slowing down within that area is plenty of chance to have a 30% or more margin of error. Given such a wide margin of error, I motion for dismissal.
• MANUAL: If this is based on the results of you pushing a button, do you have the results of your reflex test?

VISUAL ESTIMATION (As in, he was in front of Dunkin' Donuts violating a bear claw, saw that your car was faster than average and decided to write down a random amount like "50+"):
You can have a field day with this garbage and make the cop look like a total douchebag.

• Without the aid of an electronic device, how are you able determine a speed?
• Is your method of gauging speed considered accurate enough to be at least within 1 MPH accuracy?
• VISUAL: Do you have any calibration methods that enable you to gauge your eyes?
• Do you have any records that your eyes have been calibrated to factory specifications? But keeping in mind that we are biological beings and produced from the flesh and bone of our mother, was your mother able to certify your vision?
• Is your optometrist or ophthalmologist capable of calibrating your eyes to measure a vehicle's speed?
• When was the last time that calibration was performed? If so, are you able to show the court those records?
• ENGINE VOLUME: As you may be aware, every car has a different engine volume; An electric vehicle is practically silent, and an exotic sports car can roar along even if it is only going 10 MPH. However, can I safely presume that you can hum or whistle at a fixed pitch and be able to pick up supersonic waves as it bounces off a solid object as well as a radar, right?
• Do you have any records that your ears have been calibrated to factory specifications? But keeping in mind that we are biological beings and produced from the flesh and bone of our mother, was your mother able to certify your hearing?
• Is your audiologist or otolaryngologist (AKA ENT doctor) capable of training or calibrating your ears to measure a vehicle's speed?
• When was the last time that calibration was performed? If so, are you able to show the court those records?
• CLOSING: Your honor, I am surprised that given the wildly inaccurate method of using biological methods, the officer still decides to use his eyes and ears to gauge speed, which has the potential of being off by as much as 10 MPH in certain situations." Continue below.

Then you ask the judge: "Your honor, given so many factors that can disrupt an accurate reading, as all charges must be exact and accurate, which arguendo, one cannot say someone is going at a certain speed 'give or take 5 miles per hour', which given the same rationale, there has been no criminal charges that have been made with "3 or more killings", or "the suspect robbed a handful of banks". Given that Officer/Deputy [name] cannot answer my questions with 100% conviction and accuracy, I motion for the evidence to be stricken due to its unreliability, and further motion for acquittal due to lack of reliable evidence."

Footnotes: Since the average officer will only record if they calibrated it and a calibration log at the most, but no hygrometer reading (the cop might not even know what a hygrometer is), or even a picture of the highway for that matter, it'll throw him off BIG TIME. If the consequences for lousy evidence was as bad as a civilian's, he'd be in jail or fined $1,000 for framing you.

I read and remembered this from a speeding ticket e-book from years ago that got me out of 4 speeding tickets, and it provided a case law (sadly I can't find the book online anymore, nor can I find the files on my laptop and my desktop is in storage), but even Wikipedia gives all the factors that can produce an unreliable reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR_speed_gun

Also another factor: Don't know about other states, but most cops are essentially taking a day off to come to court, and the punishment is punitive, if there are any actions taken against the cop at all, compared to a civilian who will be issued a bench warrant and doubled fines, so there is no incentive or danger if a cop flakes, so 80% of the times, a case is dismissed simply due to the cop not showing up.

Sorry cop, no Dunkin' Donuts for you .

Oh and just to clarify, "arguendo" means "for the sake of argument".

[bimmer72]

The reason why both boxes are checked ("Estimated" and "Lidar") is that he estimated that you were going over the speed limit and then verified it with his Lidar gun to confirm his estimation.

[Boston335xi]

Never try to fight the equipment on a laser gun. You will lose 9 times out of 10. You're going to have to go to court regardless to get it reduced. You're best bet is to get there early and plain tell the officer the truth. (I wouldn't admit I knew I was speeding, but I would let him know that it is very important that you get it reduced. I always use my job and how I can't have points on my license.) get to court early and try to talk to the cop beforehand. Most of the time they will help you out. If they feel you are full of it or you are trying to put one by them, they will fight it all the way. Im sure you can figure out how I know all of this, and you would be wise to use a little charm rather than tell him his equipment was broken.

[zgresh]

thanks for all the advice guys. After thinking hard i remembered i have a friend whose dad works at the charlton state police barracks with the same officer...he told me to bring him the ticket and now it is as if it never happened. Having connections helped me here, but I will heed your advice for the next inevitable time. Thanks again! Drive safe around charlton

[NEFARIOUS]

Originally Posted by Boston335xi

Never try to fight the equipment on a laser gun. You will lose 9 times out of 10. You're going to have to go to court regardless to get it reduced. You're best bet is to get there early and plain tell the officer the truth. (I wouldn't admit I knew I was speeding, but I would let him know that it is very important that you get it reduced. I always use my job and how I can't have points on my license.) get to court early and try to talk to the cop beforehand. Most of the time they will help you out. If they feel you are full of it or you are trying to put one by them, they will fight it all the way. Im sure you can figure out how I know all of this, and you would be wise to use a little charm rather than tell him his equipment was broken.

Well, out of 5 speeding tickets I got in my life, 3 were LIDAR and I got them all dismissed... Granted, one flaked, but the 2 others were thrown out since I was able to discredit the evidence; my clean record and Good Driver Discount can back me up (but still, knock on wood). I haven't found the case law, but it cites studies where you can be up to 20% off if you improperly use the laser gun during high humidity or even rain/snow, if you're going 65 on the dot and the cop doesn't have a steady hand, 65+20% = 78 MPH.

Also, you can TRY to talk to the cop but 1. I don't know about courts where you are, but here in the few courts I've attended, they come in through a separate entry and you NEVER see them outside or in the lobby, 2. If he was THAT compassionate, I'm sure he wouldn't have to waste both people's times to make you lose wages and put you on the spot in a court of law and a bunch of other poor bastards in the courthouse and ripped off the ticket or let you off with a warning, and 3. Again, not sure about where you are, but our cops are notoriously ruthless. Rodney King and Rampart Scandal ring a bell?

[ska///235i]

I had a clean record until few years ago going 80-90ish at 6am in the morning while being tailgated by a hummer.
Went to court and guess what, the judge was out that day and there was a young substitute and what an ass he was...my luck I guess

[NEFARIOUS]

^Again, don't know about MA, but in CA if there's a substitute you have the right to adjourn your case until the usual judge is back... If not, challenging of evidence works great.

[Wycy]

I tried to fight a MA ticket once, and also mentioned the "estimated" bit. Didn't help at all. They said what bimmer72 noted above.