Piggyback Computer Pricing Discussion

335i_Danny · 11-09-2007, 11:02 AM

I read the whole Vishnu pricing thread and I think an honest discussion has some value. (not sure I'm allowed to post them since I only have a few posts under my belt). I took several points out of that thread and here are mine:

1) The unit price of the PROcede is a complex calculation and comparing it to the EVO reflash is not possible. Both involved significant development time and high initial fixed costs, but the PROcede has a per unit cost that increases the build cost. Furthermore, the PROcede was the first piggyback unit available, and just as the iPod commands a premium in the MP3 player market, the PROcede should command such a premium. Luckily for the consumer, the barriers to entry in this market are relatively low (since people have been tuning cars for years) and if Vishnu were to set a price that is too high, a competitor would simply come along and either offer an inferior product at a steep discount or a comparable product at a modest discount. That's just the basics of the situation, but given the demand for Vishnu's product, it seems like the price has been deemed to be fair by the market.

2) I'm hesitant to call anything an aftermarket company creates a product of R&D. I think what a Dinan or Nismo does qualifies more as R&D (don't some Dinan parts carry no risk of voiding a warranty?). These types of companies have race divisions that put thousands, if not millions, of miles on engines to test the various impacts that a change in parameters may have. This is a fact and I do not fault Vishnu or AA or any other company for it. They simply do not have the resources to conduct this type of research. Consumers should take this into account when purchasing a piggyback (or any other part from such companies). Much thought, time, design, testing etc. went into these products from aftermarket tuners, but not nearly enough to accurately gauge the impact of that product on the car's other components over time. Therefore, consumers cannot fault Vishnu for "causing" the destruction of some EVO engines. In this type of arena, it's "buyer beware" and "look before you leap".

3) There is no point in telling someone how to run their business in this arena. It's insulting and the people at Vishnu/AA/Dinan/Nismo/etc. don't come to your place of business and tell you what you're doing wrong. If you would like to make a statement against Vishnu, don't buy the product. If you would like to make a statement against AA, don't buy their product. The cliche "actions speak louder than words" is pretty applicable here. I think it's fair to say that most people understand that AA values customer service and reliable products that minimize headaches. I think it's also fair to say that Vishnu expends most of its company resources to ensure that their products are on the bleeding edge of innovation, pushing the envelope. Both have an important place in the market. Their companies, their decisions. Use that knowledge in making your purchase decision.

I am not a Vishnu owner or insider, but like I said in some of my previous posts, if I saw the type of piss and vitriol that some forum members spit out on a regular basis, I wouldn't be quick to lend a helping hand, whether it hurt my business or not (just a personal observation and I know it's not the best way to conduct business, but it would be my way to conduct business).

sirploppy · 11-09-2007, 11:10 AM

You mean the thread that just got deleted because it did not paint Vishnu in a good light?

This board RULES!

jpsimon · 11-09-2007, 11:14 AM

well said!

sdiver68 · 11-09-2007, 11:20 AM

1) agree, let the market decide
2) agree, buyer beware
3) disagree, censorship has no upside except for those with vested interest to protect.

335i_Danny · 11-09-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdiver68

3) disagree, censorship has no upside except for those with vested interest to protect.

Definitely a good point. I think that sharing consumer experiences is definitely a positive for the community and will certainly keep the market efficient and the market participants honest. Maybe we can develop a vendor rating system here. Just about everyone who has a popular product right now is on this forum.

sirploppy · 11-09-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdiver68

1) agree, let the market decide
2) agree, buyer beware
3) disagree, censorship has no upside except for those with vested interest to protect.

+1

With a caveat on the 3rd statement. A lot of the people making suggestions on how said business should be run are customers waiting on a product. They certainly should have every right to give feedback and make observations if they are finding issues in their business transaction with the company. Many companies go out of their way the collect such feedback, be it negative or positive.

11-09-2007, 11:02 AM	#1
335i_Danny Casual Observer 1 Rep 80 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Coupe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hoboken, NJ iTrader: (0)	Piggyback Computer Pricing Discussion I read the whole Vishnu pricing thread and I think an honest discussion has some value. (not sure I'm allowed to post them since I only have a few posts under my belt). I took several points out of that thread and here are mine: 1) The unit price of the PROcede is a complex calculation and comparing it to the EVO reflash is not possible. Both involved significant development time and high initial fixed costs, but the PROcede has a per unit cost that increases the build cost. Furthermore, the PROcede was the first piggyback unit available, and just as the iPod commands a premium in the MP3 player market, the PROcede should command such a premium. Luckily for the consumer, the barriers to entry in this market are relatively low (since people have been tuning cars for years) and if Vishnu were to set a price that is too high, a competitor would simply come along and either offer an inferior product at a steep discount or a comparable product at a modest discount. That's just the basics of the situation, but given the demand for Vishnu's product, it seems like the price has been deemed to be fair by the market. 2) I'm hesitant to call anything an aftermarket company creates a product of R&D. I think what a Dinan or Nismo does qualifies more as R&D (don't some Dinan parts carry no risk of voiding a warranty?). These types of companies have race divisions that put thousands, if not millions, of miles on engines to test the various impacts that a change in parameters may have. This is a fact and I do not fault Vishnu or AA or any other company for it. They simply do not have the resources to conduct this type of research. Consumers should take this into account when purchasing a piggyback (or any other part from such companies). Much thought, time, design, testing etc. went into these products from aftermarket tuners, but not nearly enough to accurately gauge the impact of that product on the car's other components over time. Therefore, consumers cannot fault Vishnu for "causing" the destruction of some EVO engines. In this type of arena, it's "buyer beware" and "look before you leap". 3) There is no point in telling someone how to run their business in this arena. It's insulting and the people at Vishnu/AA/Dinan/Nismo/etc. don't come to your place of business and tell you what you're doing wrong. If you would like to make a statement against Vishnu, don't buy the product. If you would like to make a statement against AA, don't buy their product. The cliche "actions speak louder than words" is pretty applicable here. I think it's fair to say that most people understand that AA values customer service and reliable products that minimize headaches. I think it's also fair to say that Vishnu expends most of its company resources to ensure that their products are on the bleeding edge of innovation, pushing the envelope. Both have an important place in the market. Their companies, their decisions. Use that knowledge in making your purchase decision. I am not a Vishnu owner or insider, but like I said in some of my previous posts, if I saw the type of piss and vitriol that some forum members spit out on a regular basis, I wouldn't be quick to lend a helping hand, whether it hurt my business or not (just a personal observation and I know it's not the best way to conduct business, but it would be my way to conduct business). __________________ 2008 Sparkling Graphite Metallic 335i Coupe 6MT - Premium/Sport/Cold Weather/Nav On Order - expected delivery 11/14/07
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11-09-2007, 11:10 AM	#2
sirploppy 5 Star General 50 Rep 281 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Korova Milk Bar iTrader: (0)	You mean the thread that just got deleted because it did not paint Vishnu in a good light? This board RULES!
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11-09-2007, 11:14 AM	#3
jpsimon Team Zissou 3200 Rep 10,200 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	well said!
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11-09-2007, 11:20 AM	#4
sdiver68 Expert Road Racer 62 Rep 1,329 Posts Drives: 07 335i e90, 09 335i e93 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (3)	1) agree, let the market decide 2) agree, buyer beware 3) disagree, censorship has no upside except for those with vested interest to protect.
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