Headunit that does highs, mids, lows and sub?

kaigoss69 · 02-27-2015, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

I can debate that plenty. No MS-8, ever, took 'seconds' or even minutes to tune. Yes, we have sold and done a few .. dozen of them too.

Don, virtually every install you do is different. I know for a fact that the MS-8 would have driven me crazy in your situation. Over the years, I have learned how to trick the processor to give it what it wants. And once you do that, the results can be spectacular. But I only know it for this car, and with the OEM speaker locations. And that is my only argument, and I make it in the limited confines of this forum, and for this car. Anyone can read the posts myself and others have made on this forum, and get the cliff notes, cheat sheets, whatever you may call it, purchase the hardware that has proven to work in our cars, and turn their mediocre system into a great one, with not much effort or cost, relatively speaking. Granted, they may have to spend a few hours, perhaps even days "tweaking", especially if they are not experienced, to get it where it needs to be, but I am confident they can get there on their own. Clearly, this is a different customer than the one that shows up at your shop, doesn't know anything about car audio, and fully trusts you to transform their car into a moving concert hall. Different strokes, for different folks.

kaigoss69 · 02-27-2015, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathematics

you must not know what a properly tuned audio system sounds like then. the MS-8 sounds horrible. i've heard many of them. just because you don't know how to tune doesn't make the MS-8 actually good.

I've been to a few sound competitions back in the day, and I sat in Buwalda's G35 so I think I have the necessary perspective. Just because you don't know how to make the MS-8 sound great, doesn't make it a bad product.

mathematics · 02-27-2015, 12:24 PM

it took you how many months to get it to sound great in ONE car? yet you bash a product that takes less than an hour to sound great in ANY car. I will not sit in a car for hours "tricking a processor" into doing what i can do with a different processor in less than an hour. there's no sense at all in doing that. that time you spent trying to trick your MS-8 could have been spent with a much higher quality DSP that gives way more flexibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I've been to a few sound competitions back in the day, and I sat in Buwalda's G35 so I think I have the necessary perspective. Just because you don't know how to make the MS-8 sound great, doesn't make it a bad product.

kaigoss69 · 02-27-2015, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathematics

it took you how many months to get it to sound great in ONE car? yet you bash a product that takes less than an hour to sound great in ANY car. I will not sit in a car for hours "tricking a processor" into doing what i can do with a different processor in less than an hour. there's no sense at all in doing that. that time you spent trying to trick your MS-8 could have been spent with a much higher quality DSP that gives way more flexibility.

When did I bash your product??? In fact, I have said that if I lived close to you, I would probably have purchased your products and services, based on Don's reputation. But I do not live close to you, as do most other people who are reading this. So we are screwed, and we have to use trash like the MS-8 to help us get by. Good grief...

Wongway · 02-27-2015, 12:53 PM

I don't know what category of customer I'd be considered:

I'm just an average joe that likes my audio. However, I've sat and listened to installer's vehicles, picked up a few pointers here and there and asked a lot of questions.

From my standpoint, the MS-8 has a lot of drawbacks and issues. Fix one issue and another crops up. Bluetooth echo, etc. Plus, I don't see any gain with a feature that dials in it's own auto preset of the 'best' setting, because in my opinion, it's always relative to the end user. Car manufacturers are the first suspect in this, because they sell "high end" audio to us in a one size fits all fashion. My girlfriend's EX35 has the upgraded audio package in it with a subwoofer, center channel, etc. and frankly, I think it sounds 'okay' at best.

Having gone the manually dialed in DSP option here instead (Helix), I found it much more rewarding to get the sound the way I wanted (mostly). I'll probably have an installer tweak it better because their knowledge is better than mine, but to be honest, with enough reading and asking of questions, my audio system still sounds better than most anyone's factory setup, and it's convinced a couple of people to actively look for a similar DSP setup, so I guess I did at least something right there.

Long story short, from the standpoint of someone that doesn't know as much as a professional installer, I don't think the value/return proposition of the MS-8 is really worth it. (my opinion at least anyways)

bmw325i · 02-27-2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathematics

it's from experience. and how old are those reviews? biased? i HAD an MS-8 in MY OWN CAR and couldn't wait to get rid of it. we replaced MS-8's for customers because THEY didn't like them. tooting my own horn? this is based on personal and customer experiences. and lets be real, who set their MS-8 up in one minute and didn't have to re-run setup dozens of times to fix the crappy underseat sub issues? it doesn't take a day to tune a car. it doesn't even take an hour to tune a car.

+1 The best upgrade I ever did was get rid of the ms8 and stock headunit. Maybe mine was defective or I just didn't "trick" it into sounding good on any of the calibrations I did. A few minutes messing with the eq and time alignment on the new headunit and it already sounded better than the ms8. With Morels and Jehnerts it doesn't sound bad even without processing.

AW335TT · 02-27-2015, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

No I was responding to Don (6spdcoupe). While what you claim is possible, it is, I believe, not possible to have a centered image in both seats AND a wide sound stage at the same time. It's either one or the other, from what I have read.

The way I understand it - to have a centered image in both seats, most of the information must be coming from the center speaker. Therefore, you get a very narrow sound stage that does not stretch far left and right of the center.

While I am not terribly familiar with the capabilities of other processors, I do know that the MS-8 has a "front" setting that gives a compromise in imaging for both seats. In this case the singer is located a few inches left of dead in front of me, same for the passenger, but to the right of course. Personally I hate that setting and it makes me want to steer the car into a tree.

Proper tuning and positioning of drivers are key. It has and will continue to be done.

With all due respect to those that use and/or like the MS-8, it is surely low on the scale of actual processors. Not trying to be offensive to those that use it, but it is Extremely limited. There is really no debate on that.

Wish you were local, I'd want to hear your car.

02-27-2015, 12:53 PM	#71
Wongway Captain 29 Rep 609 Posts Drives: 328i xdrive Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (0)	I don't know what category of customer I'd be considered: I'm just an average joe that likes my audio. However, I've sat and listened to installer's vehicles, picked up a few pointers here and there and asked a lot of questions. From my standpoint, the MS-8 has a lot of drawbacks and issues. Fix one issue and another crops up. Bluetooth echo, etc. Plus, I don't see any gain with a feature that dials in it's own auto preset of the 'best' setting, because in my opinion, it's always relative to the end user. Car manufacturers are the first suspect in this, because they sell "high end" audio to us in a one size fits all fashion. My girlfriend's EX35 has the upgraded audio package in it with a subwoofer, center channel, etc. and frankly, I think it sounds 'okay' at best. Having gone the manually dialed in DSP option here instead (Helix), I found it much more rewarding to get the sound the way I wanted (mostly). I'll probably have an installer tweak it better because their knowledge is better than mine, but to be honest, with enough reading and asking of questions, my audio system still sounds better than most anyone's factory setup, and it's convinced a couple of people to actively look for a similar DSP setup, so I guess I did at least something right there. Long story short, from the standpoint of someone that doesn't know as much as a professional installer, I don't think the value/return proposition of the MS-8 is really worth it. (my opinion at least anyways)
	Appreciate 0 Quote