[BimmerToolRental]

I recently was talking to a guy that does allot of part outs on ebay. He happened to mention that he has sold more engines to people with a certain very popular integrated gas version tuner. He jokingly mentioned not to blow up my diesel engine because that are impossible to come by.

I am curious because i bought a piggyback tuner that i am now reluctant to install. It was a high quality one running over $600. Like any it has a "safe" default setting. Anything from there is at your discretion.

Anyone have any experience with an engine failure using a tuner? No need to mention the brand, just curios in general.

Isn't the diesel a forged engine as well?

[Thecastle]

Any engine can fail if badly turned. I've had a lot of tuned vehicles and never had an engine failure. A lot of tuners aren't very good so buyer beware. These guys aren't often engineers and don't have a lot of testing in place to make sure their tunes are safe. Stick with companies where tuner knows what they are doing and how to push the care safely and doesn't remove the safety systems designed to protect an engine from catastrophic failure you'll be fine. Disabling safety features like egt limits, timing limits etc. ussually results in a kaboom.

Piggy backs are very limited in capability, and can circumvent engine safety features, stick swith known runners. Basically all of the piggyback are the same and trick fuel rail pressure to spray more fuel. Up to the limit the demand will allow which is about 310whp. If you want more a full tune is the way to go.

I've had 2.0l turbo 4s with stock internals put down more power than a tunner 335d, but again it's all about the quality of the tune. Price does not mean the tunner knows what the heck their doing.

P.s. Forged rods are not always an indicator of an engines strength. Rods are not the only failure points. Pcv, valve springs, bearings, seals, all can be failure points. High torque at high rom are rod killers, it's the total force that can take a rod beyond its fatigue point you have to watch for. No one is pushing these motors to rod failure. The turbos to do so don't exist yet, or if they do I've not found them yet.

[BimmerToolRental]

Very good information. I think i will use the piggy back tuner in its basic safe mode and not push it any further.

Most people in the US it seems go with the JBD but i have heard of its own issues. I opted for the RaceChip Ultimate. It looked like it was a better build quality but i don't know anyone that has one or if there were any ill effects. Had i known they were all the same i would have saved myself $325 and gone with the JBD.

[dixy2k]

FWIW I would never use a piggyback (tuner box) on my car.

[BimmerToolRental]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

FWIW I would never use a piggyback (tuner box) on my car.

Respectfully, any reason for that statement? As most forums you hear plenty of for and against arguments, most are opinion without any real world backing either way. No offense, just would like to hear some evidence either way.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

High torque at high rom are rod killers, it's the total force that can take a rod beyond its fatigue point you have to watch for.

High torque at low rpm bends rods. This often happens in diesels when injection timing has not been adjusted properly for an increase in fuel. High rpm tends to breaks rods due to tensile force growing with the square of rpm, as they are usually stronger in compression than tension.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

mines has been flashed so far so good!!

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by BimmerToolRental

Very good information. I think i will use the piggy back tuner in its basic safe mode and not push it any further.

Most people in the US it seems go with the JBD but i have heard of its own issues. I opted for the RaceChip Ultimate. It looked like it was a better build quality but i don't know anyone that has one or if there were any ill effects. Had i known they were all the same i would have saved myself $325 and gone with the JBD.

Its safe to say you will be fine with your tuner box. I'm not sure what the RaceChip does but if it's similar to the JBD it will be ok. These motors have enough protection built in, whether egt, boost or fuel rail pressure sensing, that the dde will pull power if anything goes wrong. Some of us are running a true piggyback (or similar) on top of a pretty stout tune with no issues....yet

[Hoooper]

Yeah you won't have engine problems solely because of a JBD or similar. The guys running dpf delete tunes are making way more power all over the curve than us poor suckers with JBD only could ever dream of.

[joe_planet]

I have the RaceChip, the middle of the road one, not the top of the line one. To say that the tuner box can circumvent built in safeguards is totally false. Only a full tune could do that, since you're modifying the actual engine controller programming. A piggy back doesn't do that, it only modifies the fueling. While I had the racechip on it was working fine with no issues and didnt cause any problems. It did in fact give me more power as promised. You will have to try different settings on it however to see which ones work for you. Turn it up too much and you'll get limp mode. Dont turn it up enough and it wont feel any different than stock.

[BimmerToolRental]

All good info, thank you. I have purchased the EGR block off plates and unless there is a drawback, i believe i will install and tune out the EGR related CEL's. I will then run a modest piggyback setting and see how it responds. The gasoline tuner versions seem to be much more integrated into the electronics.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by DWR

High torque at low rpm bends rods. This often happens in diesels when injection timing has not been adjusted properly for an increase in fuel. High rpm tends to breaks rods due to tensile force growing with the square of rpm, as they are usually stronger in compression than tension.

Inertial forces acting on the rods are generally 3x-5x higher than compression (torque) forces as revs rise. It's high revs and torque that kill rods. It's running them beyond their fatigue strength that leads to failure. People don't pop their engines at idle or near idle, they pop as the rev them near redline.

[dixy2k]

Originally Posted by BimmerToolRental

Respectfully, any reason for that statement? As most forums you hear plenty of for and against arguments, most are opinion without any real world backing either way. No offense, just would like to hear some evidence either way.

You need to read some European forums and ask them why. They had diesel for far longer, in larger numbers than we had here and know a lot more about tuning than we do.

A tune box will get more power by means of having the engine parameters run in a bad way, as if in an emergency computer situation.
It does not take into account all relevant parameters, it raises the rail pressure way too much.

It ends up distorting the engine.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

People don't pop their engines at idle or near idle, they pop as the rev them near redline.

That statement could be misleading. People DO bend their rods at 2,500 rpm, no where near redline.

While I am not sure if you are clear about (not necessarily your understanding, but your presentation) compression yield, tension yield and fatigue failure, I think we are just in disagreement that rods only fail in one mode. Plenty of data to contradict the 1 mode theory.