[Isaiah5411]

Right now, because of the problem with my car not taking the AA tune properly (See below*), my car has the the 3.0 manifold and the STOCK tune (no version of the AA tune) in it. It is driving pretty well but occasionally hesitates then surges when accelerating through 2nd and 3rd gear usually between 2 and 4k rpm. Again, this is an intermittent problem.

Because of my history of vanos-related problems - since I last posted about my car not taking the AA tune - I have:
1) Replaced the vanos solenoids
2) Replaced the vanos filters (non-return valves) - They were clean!
3) Replaced the throttle body
4) Changed the oil THREE times, cleaning the solenoids each time
5) Changed the transmission fluid

Yesterday, I took the car to my BMW indy and he ran a diagnostic that said that "a 3.0 manifold was NOT present in this car." I thought the 3.0 manifold would be recognized, simply not operate properly, without a tune.

My question: Does a 3.0 manifold tune (e.g. AA, Evolve) have to be in the car in order for the ECU to recognize the 3.0 manifold's presence? Or, am I having a problem with one/both of the DISA units, preventing the ECU from detecting the manifold?


(Today, I plan to put one the Revision of the AA tune back into the car that didn't cause the limp mode (one without the throttle maps) and take it back to him tomorrow and see if the 3.0 manifold is being recognized.)



Note: Previous history of problems with AA tune in my car:

After the 3.0 manifold installation and AA tune, my car was doing this hesitation/surge thing intermittently and would occasionally throw a vanos code (exhaust side 3 times before solenoids replaced and intake side once after solenoids replaced). We think some trash got into the engine after replacing the oil filter gasket. It through the first vanos code almost immediately after that work was done.

When it went into limp mode (which only happened with the full AA tune containing throttle maps), it would throw these 3 codes:
0. Motor Control:
<--------------------------->
Engine / Motor:
- Fault: DME digital motor electronics, internal error: actual torque control
- Code: 002D59
<===========================>
1. ABS / DSC / Brake:
<--------------------------->
Dynamische Stabilitaets Kontrolle / DSC:
- Fault: Engine torque is not adjustable CAN
- Code: 005E19
<===========================>
<===========================>
3. Transmission Control:
<--------------------------->
Transmission / Getriebe GS 19:
- Fault: :K-Can Bus off
- Code: 00CF17 (Note: This code was there before the tune and never clears.)
- Fault: sorry, unknown DTC fault
- Code: 005817

[hassmaschine]

It's not so much that the DME "recognizes" the manifold (it doesn't have any way to do that). it's that the DME is enabled for the manifold.

And no, the stock 325/328 tune is not configured properly for the manifold.

With the errors that are popping up are you sure it's even engine related? that K-can bus error is troubling.

[Isaiah5411]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

It's not so much that the DME "recognizes" the manifold (it doesn't have any way to do that). it's that the DME is enabled for the manifold.

And no, the stock 325/328 tune is not configured properly for the manifold.

With the errors that are popping up are you sure it's even engine related? that K-can bus error is troubling.

Thanks! So...without the tune, do the DISA actuators close the flaps like they are supposed to upon starting the car and idling or do they remain open? In other words, is it the tune that makes both of these actuators work like they are supposed to?

I thought I read somewhere that, without the tune, the third stage takes place normally but the second stage (medium engine speed range, when DISA actuator motor 2 is opened) doesn't occur like it should, resulting in limited low end torque.

I just put in the "Revision 3" of the AA tune (full AA tune minus throttle maps) back into the car this AM and...the low end is MUCH improved. Consistently knocked off a full second in my 0-60 times. Does that automatically mean that the 3.0 manifold is operating properly now or could the tune alone do that??

[hassmaschine]

The tune is enabling the manifold. The flaps probably do open/close somewhat like they do on the 330i, but it's not set the same. There are about 8 parameters that need to be revised for the full 3 stage setup, which I presume is what AA is doing in the tune they gave you.

[328XIdiot]

FWIW, the stock tune will operate the DISAs without the tune - not optimized like others have stated - but they will open and close. Here is a video of me testing DISAs on my car withou a tune.

[hassmaschine]

I can't see the video, but testing at rest with no load on the engine isn't the same thing. the DISA flaps are controlled by more than just an RPM setpoint. Also, I know for a fact that the single stage tunes do not operate the flaps optimally. The 2nd stage on the 325i tune for example is set to something like 33,000rpm. So obviously it never crosses that threshold. There's a bunch of switches based on different engine conditions (load, etc) that are not set either.

[328XIdiot]

Never said that it was optimized, but you can see all three stages based off of RPM. I am sure there are other factors, but in the video it is 3500rpm, 4000rpm and 6500rpm.

[tuphdc]

Originally Posted by 328XIdiot

FWIW, the stock tune will operate the DISAs without the tune - not optimized like others have stated - but they will open and close. Here is a video of me testing DISAs on my car withou a tune.

thanks for that

[OrangeInOhio]

Originally Posted by 328XIdiot

Never said that it was optimized, but you can see all three stages based off of RPM. I am sure there are other factors, but in the video it is 3500rpm, 4000rpm and 6500rpm.

What year is your car? I saw the same thing when testing mine, but my smaller DISA opened initially at 2500 RPMs and you could feel it when it did. Not sure about the other RPMs though.

[328XIdiot]

Originally Posted by OrangeInOhio

What year is your car? I saw the same thing when testing mine, but my smaller DISA opened initially at 2500 RPMs and you could feel it when it did. Not sure about the other RPMs though.

2007 xi manual transmission.

[Isaiah5411]

Thanks for the responses!

I just read a thread dealing with a surging problem and it ended up being a defective accelerator pedal (pedal position sensor). This sounds a lot like the problem I'm having.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...osition+sensor

[mike-y]

I was going to say the disa flaps do work without the tune. I did the same test tuphdc did on his car when I installed the manifold. I didn't get the AA tune for a few months, but even on the stock tune, you could definitely feel the increased low rpm torque and surge at higher rpms.

I did get the car dyno'd without the tune, and there is a hole in the power band between ~3800-4500 rpm though (somewhere around there), and it's very noticeable in the upper gears when you do a long gear acceleration test. Other than that hole, there are gains everywhere else with the 3 stage manifold on the stock tune ('06 325i).

The AA tune completely smooths that out though.

[pdub]

AA told me the car will never recognize the three stage manifold even though the car is tuned for one. Example, you'll never get a DISA fault code on your car because the car is not looking for it.

[hassmaschine]

you guys can keep arguing. I never said it didn't actuate the flaps - what I was trying to say is they aren't actuated properly.

the RPM thresholds and engine states are not set correctly for them to work optimally. I know on some level you're agreeing, but just because they open and close when you free-rev the engine doesn't mean they are working correctly, especially with the engine under load.

[Isaiah5411]

As I said earlier, I put the full AA tune minus the throttle maps into my car on Thursday....could definitely feel the difference in power and easily knocked a full second (maybe 1.5 sec) off my 0-60 time. But...there was still some surging in power upon acceleration, especially around 3k rpm in lower gears.

After reading that thread I posted about accelerator pedal issues, I put the original pedal back into the car. (I had replaced it shortly after buying the car with the stainless steel pedal set, which included a new accelerator pedal.)

AND...the surging is GONE! Halleluiah! I've been battling this problem and my car not taking the AA tune for months and it turned out to be a multifactoral problem: Vanos solenoids/filters (throwing vanos codes) and throttle issues (pedal position sensor, throttle position sensor).

The car has never driven this well...smooth acceleration with extra power. And...I have this forum to thank for the help you guys have provided. Thanks!!!

(I said this is hopefully the second to last update because I have not put in the full AA tune with throttle maps yet. I am going to drive it with the stock throttle maps for a week or two then do the full tune. But, I am now quite confident that the car will finally take the full tune.)