[R8TD-M]

Curious to know how many other E9X owners in New England feel the M2 will be the car to buy when it final-f'ing-ly becomes available? For me personally, this looks a lot like the M car to have. Non "S" motor aside, a very modern, E46 sized M car with 375 HP (pre-tune ) and a 6MT sounds like absolute BMW nirvana to me.

[SLOWER]

I'd like to keep my car another year or so and go for a low mile F80 M3.

[Welterweight]

I'm with Slower.

[Torgus]

bmw waters down the brand with more and more M cars imo.

[Torgus]

bmw waters down the brand with more and more M cars imo. We have a m1 m2 m3 m4 m5 m6 now right? When merc puts an amg badge on it's usually worth it or so I feel. Not so with the M badge anymore.

[zero2sixtyZ]

Originally Posted by SLOWER

I'd like to keep my car another year or so and go for a low mile F80 M3.

+1. Or break into leasing after purchasing an SUV for a daily so I can do Euro Delivery.

[zero2sixtyZ]

Originally Posted by Torgus

bmw waters down the brand with more and more M cars imo. We have a m1 m2 m3 m4 m5 m6 now right? When merc puts an amg badge on it's usually worth it or so I feel. Not so with the M badge anymore.

Wrong. They do the same thing with both the M brand, and the M sport. AMG and AMG sport. It's all watered down, but who cares if you're in a tuned F80 running 520+ whp.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by zero2sixtyZ

Wrong. They do the same thing with both the M brand, and the M sport. AMG and AMG sport. It's all watered down, but who cares if you're in a tuned F80 running 520+ whp.

We will have to agree to disagree then. I am not talking about Msport or amg sport. BMW slaps the M on anything now. 1M? You mean an N54 stuck in a 135 that you put M brakes on? Same engine that was released 5 years ago just dropped in a 135 chassis available with a DCT. The DCT is what makes it interesting but the pricetag for what really is a 135 is insane another 12k? M used to stand for something. Now they just put a standard engine in a car and slap a badge on, this is cost cutting at its best which I think waters down the brand. 55k+ M2 with a ‘plain Jane’ engine. I call it plain jane as it is available in a non M car my mom would buy. M2 has the N55 engine that was released in 2009 in a 2016 car. 7 almost 8 year old engine technology in an M car? Really BMW? Is it a capable engine? Not stock but once you tune it with larger wheel in the turbo, Full E85(all while voiding your warranty) yes you get 520whp. Stock it is weak sauce.


Every AMG engine is built by one person, there is something like only 50 AMG engine builders employed by merc.

Show me the BMW equivalent of an SLS AMG Black Series or SLS AMG Coupe Electric Drive(over 700 whp & tq).

From wiki: The SLS AMG Black Series was tested by Motor Trend to have a 0-60 time of 3.2 seconds, and a quarter mile time of 11.1 seconds at 129.8 mph. The SLS AMG Black Series "demolished" the Motor Trend figure eight in just 23.1 seconds, beating the McLaren MP4-12C, Ferrari 458 Italia, Audi R8 V10 Plus, and the SRT Viper. The SLS AMG Black Series is currently the 22nd fastest car to lap the Nurburring. The SLS AMG Black Series had the same 1:19 time as the Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce, the Ferrari Enzo, and beat the Ferrari 458 Italia, Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4, Porsche 997 GT2, and Nissan GT-R around the Top Gear test track.

BMW has obviously made a clear choice in they are going for profits. See the dropping the 7 almost 8 year old N55 in a brand new M car. Is it a capable engine?

Lets talk BMW transmission anything special about the M versions? Nope. Same DCT or auto or manual they put in non M cars. At least the AMG got their own tricked out AMG SpeedShift MCT which is actually pretty cool.

I don’t know about you but I see it as watering it down. So to the OP, no I have no interest in buying an m2, also you can’t flash tune the N55 so you are stuck running a piggy sending false info to your sensors. To put it in perspective a 07 335 with smoke you with an $80 tune.

TL/DR: So 9 years later an M car can't beat a entry level 3 series worth 12k with an $80 tune.

[zero2sixtyZ]

I do agree about the AMG motors. They are well done, but I don't care if BMW makes money. It's a biz, and they do well at it. They still make fast and balanced cars with 6MTs and RWD. My recipe, sold.

I don't understand the hate on the 1M... It's a pretty desirable mash of parts. You have the N54, a motor proven to have huge potential, thrown into the offspring of a 135 and an M3. Sure, we'd love a high revving V8 with quad turbos, but hierarchy and price need to fit.

Everyone puts the M on this pedestal like it's meant to be some bespoke, hand-crafted piece of weaponry. It's still a similar chassis, with revised suspension/brakes, flared fenders and a different motor/trans. Same with the AMG, same with the M. Always has been, hence why the E30 M was created...

Stop looking at the badge, test drive the stupid thing, if you like it, buy it. People have ruined the M badge way before BMW did.

[Hadley]

Jon,

How many bmws do you own again you cuckold?

And I mean that in an automotive way you lazy bastard

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Hadley

Jon,

How many bmws do you own again you cuckold?

And I mean that in an automotive way you lazy bastard

You know, I never liked you as a person.

It's personal attacks like this that make me not want to post.

Cuckold eh? Just you wait. You will get your just deserts!



And putting the N55 in an M2 is :007:

[Hadley]

Originally Posted by Torgus

You know, I never liked you as a person.

It's personal attacks like this that make me not want to post.

Cuckold eh? Just you wait. You will get your just deserts!



And putting the N55 in an M2 is :007:

Buys BMWs, would rather have someone else clean while he watches

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Hadley

Buys BMWs, would rather have someone else clean while he watches

Just like Mr. Miyagi.

[Hadley]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Just like Mr. Miyagi.

Which desert will I be getting? The Sahara?

[Torgus]

God will you just go away? I don't like you. Leave me alone.

[R8TD-M]

Originally Posted by Torgus

We will have to agree to disagree then. I am not talking about Msport or amg sport. BMW slaps the M on anything now. 1M? You mean an N54 stuck in a 135 that you put M brakes on? Same engine that was released 5 years ago just dropped in a 135 chassis available with a DCT. The DCT is what makes it interesting but the pricetag for what really is a 135 is insane another 12k? M used to stand for something. Now they just put a standard engine in a car and slap a badge on, this is cost cutting at its best which I think waters down the brand. 55k+ M2 with a ‘plain Jane’ engine. I call it plain jane as it is available in a non M car my mom would buy. M2 has the N55 engine that was released in 2009 in a 2016 car. 7 almost 8 year old engine technology in an M car? Really BMW? Is it a capable engine? Not stock but once you tune it with larger wheel in the turbo, Full E85(all while voiding your warranty) yes you get 520whp. Stock it is weak sauce.


Every AMG engine is built by one person, there is something like only 50 AMG engine builders employed by merc.

Show me the BMW equivalent of an SLS AMG Black Series or SLS AMG Coupe Electric Drive(over 700 whp & tq).

From wiki: The SLS AMG Black Series was tested by Motor Trend to have a 0-60 time of 3.2 seconds, and a quarter mile time of 11.1 seconds at 129.8 mph. The SLS AMG Black Series "demolished" the Motor Trend figure eight in just 23.1 seconds, beating the McLaren MP4-12C, Ferrari 458 Italia, Audi R8 V10 Plus, and the SRT Viper. The SLS AMG Black Series is currently the 22nd fastest car to lap the Nurburring. The SLS AMG Black Series had the same 1:19 time as the Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SuperVeloce, the Ferrari Enzo, and beat the Ferrari 458 Italia, Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4, Porsche 997 GT2, and Nissan GT-R around the Top Gear test track.

BMW has obviously made a clear choice in they are going for profits. See the dropping the 7 almost 8 year old N55 in a brand new M car. Is it a capable engine?

Lets talk BMW transmission anything special about the M versions? Nope. Same DCT or auto or manual they put in non M cars. At least the AMG got their own tricked out AMG SpeedShift MCT which is actually pretty cool.

I don’t know about you but I see it as watering it down. So to the OP, no I have no interest in buying an m2, also you can’t flash tune the N55 so you are stuck running a piggy sending false info to your sensors. To put it in perspective a 07 335 with smoke you with an $80 tune.

TL/DR: So 9 years later an M car can't beat a entry level 3 series worth 12k with an $80 tune.

Torgus- great post. You know me (OP) from my silver 07 335 with JB4 and AFE DCI, (pictures of our cars at NED last year in these forms somewhere) i changed my username back around March when i traded that car for my e92M (it was 603N54) . Anyways, when it comes to the M vs AMG levels of "special sauce" its worth pointing out two things. 1, each and every m3 vs c63 AMG comparo concludes the same thing- Both amazing cars, one a fine red wine and one a fine white. Its all personal taste, with the BMW being the more "hard edge" car and the merc being softer yet more powerful, which doesn't translate to faster lap times for the merc. Motors built by hand or robot, they are both incredible vehicles. Secondly, the debate could be made that by watering down the line with "m-sport" and "AMG package" cars, this bridges a gap in the market, which brings in more revenue, and as a result - the true M and AMG vehicles get better, as the MFRs have more money to play with in development stages.

As for an N55 in the M2, that's the current rumor mill conclusion, with most reliable sources suggesting this to be the motor that makes production. My gut tells me that this wont be the same thing you'd find in any old 2012 x1 xDrive35i, in that in will also use the F8x M3/4 water to air intercooler, a higher red line as a result of revised / strengthened internals, a more aggressive tune, certainly a better oil cooling system, and possibly even a larger turbo on the n55 block. Does that make it worthy as a "true M car?" ? Or does it need to have a bespoke, one off motor? (S series motor) I'm lucky enough to have quite possibly the last true M motor (S65) by many peoples definition, so im as skeptical as they come, most notably when revving to 8300 RPMs However, since we can all agree that BMW built its legacy on incredible motors across the entire line - (hell the N52 in the 328xi my girlfriend drives is incredible in its own right- (ive never felt a smoother engine, you could bounce that thing off the rev limit and not even notice it)) --- can it be said that a N55 with upgraded internals, cooling, forced induction, and factory aggressive tune is a "real M engine"? Also, since the ECU's in the F80 Ms have been cracked, it wont be more than a year into production before the aftermarket has a non piggy back tune available for whatever lies beneath the hood of the M2.
In conclusion, what i'm most excited about with the M2 is the smaller, lighter M car concept. You can throw big HP at big cars all day, but where is the sweet spot of fun had? To me, its lighter, smaller, and north of 300WHP. It hurts to bring up a dodge, but if i won a hellcat i would immediately sell that mess of shit and buy a slower, less powerful and smaller M3, as im sure 99% of those on this form would. To me, the M2 represents a continuation of that formula, take the best parts of an M3, and wrap in in an E46 sized package, dial back the power so you don't cannibalize M3 sales (bummer) and you've got a winner.

My .02!

[SLOWER]

Originally Posted by zero2sixtyZ

+1. Or break into leasing after purchasing an SUV for a daily so I can do Euro Delivery.

I've got my wife interested in the Euro Delivery plan. Just not quite there with the $1000/mo car payment.

[Hadley]

Originally Posted by Torgus

God will you just go away? I don't like you. Leave me alone.

[IMG]http://sites.psu.edu/harercl1415/wp-...e-me-alone.jpg[/IMG]

Any more amazingly funny pics you want to share today?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Hadley

Any more amazingly funny pics you want to share today?

not with you.

[Hadley]

Originally Posted by Torgus

not with you.

My job here is done

Oh and, I would love an M2