[Fez335i]

So after installing JB4, I've decided before going for more power, I want to sort out the handling first...

Looking for some advise as to what route to go down and to whether the way my car behaves is normal or not.

Firstly my issues:

The car seems to get unsettled by uneven road surface, small bumps or undulations in the road very easily.. This happens when traveling anywhere north of 40 - 50mph and the couple of times its happened its been pretty scary.

The second one I noticed the other day, is when travelling at speed on the motorway, there's a lot of play in the steering.. As in I can move the steering a fair bit to the left or right without the car moving into a different lane.. Is this normal? It doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Ok so what I've got planned so far:

Runflats have got to go, plan on doing this over the next couple of weeks.

Coilovers + springs... I would appreciate some suggestions here, I'm happy with the stock height, so I don't want to drop it all. I don't mind if the ride gets a little firmer as long as its not crashy.. Would prefer adjustable coilovers if possible.

Also want to fit some M3 control arms on, I don't know if I'm not looking in the right places, but can't seem to find them.

Budget for the coilovers, springs & control arms ~ £1000..

Thanks
Fez

[KiwiRD]

Bilstein B12 kit and M3 front arms should come in at under 1K. It's a tried and tested upgrade for the E9X platform. You don't really need coilovers unless you want to be able to adjust ride height and / or damping, which for many is unnecessary.

Once your dampers are worn out, they fail to control / dampen the motion of the springs as your car rides over bumps. This results in a crashy bouncy ride and your car becomes unsettled over irregularities in the road. This can also contribute to vague steering response.

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by KiwiRD

Once your dampers are worn out, they fail to control / dampen the motion of the springs as your car rides over bumps. This results in a crashy bouncy ride and your car becomes unsettled over irregularities in the road. This can also contribute to vague steering response.

But worn dampers shouldn't result in the vagueness he's experiencing on the motorway, even a small steering input should result in 'some' change of direction, even with worn dampers, I would get the car into a garage and get it checked out as a matter of urgency, and wouldn't drive it too far till you've done so.

[RajB]

When was the last time you had an alignment done? And check your tyre pressures too. That would be the first thing to do if I were you. Then if still no different then definitely get it into a garage to have the front end checked over fully. I agree it doesn't sound like worn dampers from what you've described.

As for suspension options for the budget the B12 kit and M3 arms will be a good upgrade and should meet your requirements. There's a suspension thread somewhere (I'll try to find it) as I posted up the links to the M3 arms there. It's where Tin and I sourced ours and they were well priced.

[OGM2LCI]

Can get M3 control arms from Amazon that are well priced

They're identical to M3 arms but have the ///M logo ground off them

Front arm part numbers are;
JTC followed by...
1423
1424
1426
1427

[RajB]

Here you go:

I got my set from www.spareto.com

TRW JTC1426

TRW JTC1427

TRW JTC1423

TRW JTC1424

[old grey steve]

Steering vagueness is something I'd deal with first, I'd be looking at wear re inner outer track rod ends over time they can sucombe to wear. Easy to spot on the ramp(plus it's a heads up re MOT)as any wear noted can be advised/failed for me that will cover the basics re the steering vagueness. You may also pick up on suspension wear as well but I'd having a look at the track rod assemblies. Once you've ironed this out again as Raj has stated if you're not moving on the front arms at that point get the alignment looked at and same the same time the tyres, I'd inspect the tyres very carefully, both for wear and also pressures as well, if you're currently on RFT's the inner treads usually wear or step slightly.

Removing RFT's for standard tyres again makes a difference as I discovered tyre wear if you keep an eye on the pressures regularly switching seems to be for longevity's sake better, tyre brand whatever you choose to buy is a subjective thing I'm running Conti Sport Contact 5P's all round they're a great tyre with decent rim protection as well but isn't overall wear wise as good as some others. But the jury for me is out on that one I go for grip and other factors over pure longevity, but I wish they'd last longer

Suspension wise it's a smart move to upgrade to M3 arms(tension struts with ball joint facing downwards) and the same time the front wishbones thst sit behind(ballpoint facing upwards) these combined really do make a difference, though you'll introduce a little bit of camber into the equation but it's a small amount. I was 50/50 re this spoke to Raj and some others re the camber effect it's as I discovered negligible but it's still there but the pros seem to easily outweigh the cons. On the subject of your reported issues on rough type roads suspect some if not all the issues you have may point in this direction as the ball joints over time suffer. But while under inspection check the shocks for lack of resistance)car may feel floaty at speed or you may hear/feel a slight knocking/pumiling type sound again with age shocks can suffer.

On the subject of suspension I'd say once the steering vagueness is addressed and say your tyres are up to scratch then it's worthy of a go upgrading the 335i setup rather than sticking to OEM, it isn't too difficult and the ride as well as of course the handling are much improved too. What to go for is the magic question.

In my opinion the matched B12 kit as stated is a known product and is effective in delivering the good, I went a slightly different route(not of my making)and have EiBach Pro's custom built Bilstein B8's and EiBachs front/rear roll bars fitted along with front camber plates to address the previously stated camber issue re the M3 arms, trouble with these plates is though actually finding a final setup. But on the springs/shocks even if you don't address it now later on you'd be on the right track with tge B12 setup.

[Aragorn30d]

The camber really isnt an issue, the E90 has far too little camber stock, presumably to induce understeer earlier and make it drive more like a FWD car for your average punter.

Theres a reason BMW added the camber to the M3!

The ~1.5 degrees you end up with on M3 arms is pretty much ideal for fast road use on good tyres and wont cause you any undue wear issues.

[Fez335i]

Thanks for all the info everyone, as always its much appreciated!

I'm going to take it in this week for the track rod assemblies to be inspected and sorted. - thanks for the tip Steve, I wish Stevenage wasn't so far away otherwise I could've just brought it to you! Will have to bring it down soon for wallnut blasting as I don't think its ever been done on this car..

Going to go for some new tyres and the control arms all in one go I think.. Hopefully should be within the next couple of weeks!

I should really start a build thread soon with all these upgrades

[Fez335i]

Ok so just an update on the steering problem I have.. The track rod ends were really rusty and couldnt even be adjusted..

So I've gotten them replaced today and done the alignment.. The car feels miles better at slow speed, but it still hasn't sorted out the problem..

Maybe vaugness isnt the best way to describe it... When going down the motorway at above average speed, there's a lot of play in the steering.. I understand that steering wouldn't be as heavy as it is when going slowly, but it really doesn't inspire confidence..

Next up to change is tyres, but I really doubt that's gonna solve the problem..

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks

[k9david]

Dont give up on the tyres being the problem, my E92 was all over the place on runflats, changed to Michelin and the car was transformed.

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Fez335i

Ok so just an update on the steering problem I have.. The track rod ends were really rusty and couldnt even be adjusted..

So I've gotten them replaced today and done the alignment.. The car feels miles better at slow speed, but it still hasn't sorted out the problem..

Maybe vaugness isnt the best way to describe it... When going down the motorway at above average speed, there's a lot of play in the steering.. I understand that steering wouldn't be as heavy as it is when going slowly, but it really doesn't inspire confidence..

Next up to change is tyres, but I really doubt that's gonna solve the problem..

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks

So track rod ends were seized replaced, but we're not sure if they'd had play present? Suspect due to age there may have been, though you can never be certain, but as you say a step in the right direction has been achieved by changing these and carrying out the required alignment check!

But it still doesn't feel spot on? Let's start with the tyres for a second, same tread pattern front/rear, near side/offside? If directional, are they fitted correctly(yep seen directional tyres fitted incorrectly with the magic arrow facing the wrong way.. )I'd of hoped, though you haven't stated this thst tyre wise everything checks out. Again tyres seen this as well but if the brands say differ do you have say a run flat on one axle and a non run flat on the opposite axle. If this is the case for instance then it's going to effect what's going on re car to tarmac relationship, like wise tyre pressures. Don't ever dismiss tyres and their effect on things though. So have a damn good look at all 4 corners re tyres, look if directional for arrows pointing the correct way(arrow facing forward) lol at the tread on both the fronts and get the pressures checked too.

If overinflated(tread wear will help here as if the centre is more worn than the inner/outer tread area these are signs of over inflation, the tyre will feel balloon like as speed increases, pressures naturally increase and as per quote you'll get less inner/outer tread contact to road(seen this plenty of times before) and tge car steering wise will feel more vague perhaps for some a tad nervous re inital turn in as well and of course in wet/greasy conditions steering will feel lighter as well, but and you haven't mentioned this so don't know but I'd of hoped whoever done the track rod ends and tracking would of spotted this and ruled out certain things. Likewise on the arms if play had been present then age in I'd of hoped for a comment/if worn I'd of never of tracked without replacing these.

One thing I'd say re a 335i steering weight is at speed always very acceptable, having driven countless examples apart from whst I've mentioned haven't noted any concern re weight/feel/directness at all, all have felt OK once you've tidied up tyres dampers and other issues that they come in for.

The other thing I'd ask is whether the cars unfortunate enough to have active steering? Seen a couple of racks fail (control unit fault which meant the steering control that BMW provided these cars with failed) steering felt like the front wheels were partly suspended from the ground and felt twitchy at speeds over 60mph, one one car I know tyres, tracking were all checked/replaced with minor results on diagnostic steering actually didn't register any issues re fault, yet we knew the car was thus equipped and when it was mentioned we were told we weren't the first to encounter this issue re no registered fault, but with the price of steering gear plus the cars values both opted to move the cars on....

Re knowing if the cars got active steering chassis number may help.

Suspension as someone's done the track rod ends/tracking again how report wise based on what you've reported/been saying does all that lot comeback?

All these things can contribute its just that you haven't mentioned themso we are none the wiser.

[Fez335i]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

So track rod ends were seized replaced, but we're not sure if they'd had play present? Suspect due to age there may have been, though you can never be certain, but as you say a step in the right direction has been achieved by changing these and carrying out the required alignment check!

But it still doesn't feel spot on? Let's start with the tyres for a second, same tread pattern front/rear, near side/offside? If directional, are they fitted correctly(yep seen directional tyres fitted incorrectly with the magic arrow facing the wrong way.. )I'd of hoped, though you haven't stated this thst tyre wise everything checks out. Again tyres seen this as well but if the brands say differ do you have say a run flat on one axle and a non run flat on the opposite axle. If this is the case for instance then it's going to effect what's going on re car to tarmac relationship, like wise tyre pressures. Don't ever dismiss tyres and their effect on things though. So have a damn good look at all 4 corners re tyres, look if directional for arrows pointing the correct way(arrow facing forward) lol at the tread on both the fronts and get the pressures checked too.

If overinflated(tread wear will help here as if the centre is more worn than the inner/outer tread area these are signs of over inflation, the tyre will feel balloon like as speed increases, pressures naturally increase and as per quote you'll get less inner/outer tread contact to road(seen this plenty of times before) and tge car steering wise will feel more vague perhaps for some a tad nervous re inital turn in as well and of course in wet/greasy conditions steering will feel lighter as well, but and you haven't mentioned this so don't know but I'd of hoped whoever done the track rod ends and tracking would of spotted this and ruled out certain things. Likewise on the arms if play had been present then age in I'd of hoped for a comment/if worn I'd of never of tracked without replacing these.

One thing I'd say re a 335i steering weight is at speed always very acceptable, having driven countless examples apart from whst I've mentioned haven't noted any concern re weight/feel/directness at all, all have felt OK once you've tidied up tyres dampers and other issues that they come in for.

The other thing I'd ask is whether the cars unfortunate enough to have active steering? Seen a couple of racks fail (control unit fault which meant the steering control that BMW provided these cars with failed) steering felt like the front wheels were partly suspended from the ground and felt twitchy at speeds over 60mph, one one car I know tyres, tracking were all checked/replaced with minor results on diagnostic steering actually didn't register any issues re fault, yet we knew the car was thus equipped and when it was mentioned we were told we weren't the first to encounter this issue re no registered fault, but with the price of steering gear plus the cars values both opted to move the cars on....

Re knowing if the cars got active steering chassis number may help.

Suspension as someone's done the track rod ends/tracking again how report wise based on what you've reported/been saying does all that lot comeback?

All these things can contribute its just that you haven't mentioned themso we are none the wiser.

Ok so when I mentioned it doesn't feel spot on I was speaking in regards to the steering when travelling speed, sorry reading my message now I can see I wasn't clear... In terms of alignment and round town it feels great now.

In terms of tyre wear and pressure, the pressure is spot on and I usually check this every 2 weeks. There is a fair bit of wear on the outer edges of all tyres but the middle is wear is as it should be.. It's a friend of mine who did the work and he didn't get a chance to test it on the motorway so he said to try it out and see how it goes..

It's not so much that it feels light at speed, it's a bit hard to describe.. But maybe a good way of putting it would be that it feels almost slippery..

I did ask him to have a nosey round while under there and when I left I was assured that there's no play in the arms and that everything looks fine..

I've just checked on http://www.bmwarchive.org/vin/bmw-vin-decoder.html and i don't see active steering in the options list.. Not sure if that's the right place to be looking.. WBAWB72040P053461

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Fez335i

Ok so when I mentioned it doesn't feel spot on I was speaking in regards to the steering when travelling speed, sorry reading my message now I can see I wasn't clear... In terms of alignment and round town it feels great now.

In terms of tyre wear and pressure, the pressure is spot on and I usually check this every 2 weeks. There is a fair bit of wear on the outer edges of all tyres but the middle is wear is as it should be.. It's a friend of mine who did the work and he didn't get a chance to test it on the motorway so he said to try it out and see how it goes..

It's not so much that it feels light at speed, it's a bit hard to describe.. But maybe a good way of putting it would be that it feels almost slippery..

I did ask him to have a nosey round while under there and when I left I was assured that there's no play in the arms and that everything looks fine..

I've just checked on http://www.bmwarchive.org/vin/bmw-vin-decoder.html and i don't see active steering in the options list.. Not sure if that's the right place to be looking.. WBAWB72040P053461

Using your chassis number quickly looking it up

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9...owse/steering/


as you can see the active steering does come up as a possible fitted option, luckily not many customers chose it but on earlier 330is for example say from 2004/05 a fair few had it but slowly it seemed to of been dropped, thank god, I couldn't say for sure if it has it but if it did things like the torque unit in the bottom of the rack can fail the control unit wouldn't as we've discovered know when to wind back the assistance in theory faults should show but as staed above it doesn't always pan out that way. But there are tests that can be done to narrow the issue down, but one basic test concerns the cars battery if equipped with active steering and if the battery is showing exhausted signs replcing resetting the givne parameters can magically sort out ative steering issues as we have seen on a 330i and a 545i. But normally when they are terminal most chose due to the costs to walk away, lets hipe yours ins't thus equipped if so BMW specialist would be the next port of call with diag in tow.

Re your tyres good to hear re the pressures, re wear subjective issue but wear on all 4's on the outside is something you've picked up on on BMW's rears usually wear on the inners a little more and on the near side front you'd expect the outer edge to wear a tad more but on the offside I'd like to see a tad more even wear perhaps check the tyres on the inner edges you can put your hand in on the inner section of the tyre and run your hands around.



If you can't detect anything untoward then TBH without sampling the goods damn hard to really to say anything else as if your mechanics said suspensions all OK your tracking all OK, you say your tyres are all OK where else to go.

And per previous post of mine I'd assume while in the air the rear area was checked out too.

[Aragorn30d]

IIRC, active steering models have a steering reservoir which states "CHF11S only!" and has a small hex nut in the middle to undo it, whereas the normal steering cars just have a normal black reservoir with a sort of star-shaped hand cap.

If its not showing on the vin decoder then its unlikely to have it.

[old grey steve]

I've just checked back at work and like mine fortunately non active steering's fitted

[Fez335i]

Ok so a bit of an update

Ive fitted a Bilstein B12 kit, M3 front control arms and front top mounts this week. Got a full alignment done and the car feels miles better at slow speed. Everything is really tight and its great in the bends

BUT....

Got a chance to give it a go on the motorway today and the steering is still the same at high speeds. The car stays straight but theres still a dead zone and it feels vague... I don't think I need it needs to be said , but tyre pressure was checked and is all ok.

Not sure what to try next, a friend has suggested changing the rear bushes.

Several hours of googling and many suggestions come up, replacing the steering coupler? A faulty power steering pump? And a worst case scenario replacing the rack..

Once again, any opinions or suggestions are welcome

[Fez335i]

To make matters worse, there's now a strange noise when turning. It sounds like its coming from the steering wheel, when turning at a junction it sounds like a creaking noise when turning the steering..

[Aragorn30d]

rear bushes could certainly cause some vagueness, as could some slack in the rack itself, hard to tell without experiencing it first hand.

The creak could be the bearings in the top mounts, or some of the balljoints in the front suspension wishbones/track rod etc, all of which move when you steer.

I think you need to get someone else in the car, that knows E90's well.