[Rodny]

Anybody here running this set up?
Is it worth it?





Thanks!

[feuer]

Front yes, rears no, especially on low power car that is not being tracked.

[snaimpally]

I'm running the M3 control arms. I did quite a few suspension upgrades at the same time (Bilstein B12 Pro Kit, M3 FCA, front and rear sway bars, bushings) so hard for me to articulate the effect of just the control arms. The research I did suggested that it does tighten up the handling a bit.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Rodny

Anybody here running this set up?
Is it worth it?

What are your goals? AX, track, street...?

[Rodny]

street but maybe some track

[Rodny]

my son started to run his 350z and he wants me to go with him to the track.
but It will be two maybe three times an a year for me if I do it.

[Tom Droze]

When I installed the M3 front control arms and the M3 e93 front sway bar it made a very noticeable difference. Having said that, and not knowing anything else about your car, the first change needs to be tires if you haven't already upgraded them. I would also upgrade the shocks, either Bilstein or Koni, before adding the M3 components, and I would also consider sport springs too.

[Rodny]

Originally Posted by Tom Droze

When I installed the M3 front control arms and the M3 e93 front sway bar it made a very noticeable difference. Having said that, and not knowing anything else about your car, the first change needs to be tires if you haven't already upgraded them. I would also upgrade the shocks, either Bilstein or Koni, before adding the M3 components, and I would also consider sport springs too.

Running Potenza S-04 Pole Position
OEM sport suspension. not sure if I want to replace just the shocks or go with a coil-over set up.

Thanks!

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Rodny

Running Potenza S-04 Pole Position
OEM sport suspension. not sure if I want to replace just the shocks or go with a coil-over set up.

OEM sport suspension sort of limits how much of an improvement links, arms, bushings, etc. make. Camber plates and M3 front control arms could be worth the cost and if the bushing in the tension strut is replaced with a spherical bearing the entire front end is then bushing-free. Steering becomes more precise and responsive which helps learning how to drive smoothly as it becomes easier to upset the soft rear subframe bushings. In the case of tracking the car this is actually a good thing assuming you want to learn how to drive the car, a real pita if not.

The suspension is a system so making partial changes isn't always helpful. Personally I'd recommend the BMW Performance suspension as a first mod, skip the control arms and whatnot. I changed from Sport suspension to the PS at less than 900 miles on the odo cuz the OEM Sport suspension was too underdamped for me. The PS was nearly perfect in comparison. Adding camber plates was a worthwhile improvement after that.

A clutch type LSD was next and well worth the expense. Going to a square setup made a noticeable improvement as well. Eventually the springs and dampers were changed out to three way race parts at the same time all the rubber bushings were changed to spherical bearings and the mounts in the driveline were changed to solid parts. Huge difference and highly not recommended.

[avocet]

M3 front upgrade is worth every cent with oem sport springs. I did mine with bils hd.

Knock out your alignment pins and it makes for a very satisfying upgrade.

[Rodny]

thanks for the info!!!

[chris82]

The M3 FCA will give you a noticeable increase in steering feel and tighten up the front of the car, definitely worth it especially for what it costs. There are no downsides. You also get some added negative camber. I'd agree that the M3 rear suspension parts are pretty pointless unless you're really going gung-ho.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by chris82

The M3 FCA will give you a noticeable increase in steering feel and tighten up the front of the car, definitely worth it especially for what it costs. There are no downsides. You also get some added negative camber. I'd agree that the M3 rear suspension parts are pretty pointless unless you're really going gung-ho.

FYI for the OP - both FCAs can be a DIY but an alignment is required owing to the large toe-in the lower FCA creates on installation. And the alignment will need to be set up like an M3 with zero toe.

[shirtpants_]

Op, I wouldn't suggest getting the "upgraded" rear trailing arms. ECS's aftermarket ones may be more rigid, but they are not designed to break or bend like the OEM arms.

BMW designed the rear trailing arms with a weak point that will bend/break in case of an accident. They're designed to break/bend downwards, away from the gas tank, so they don't pierce it. ECS's may be stiffer, but it just isn't worth the trade off of possibly being burnt alive or having to replace the fuel tank...
If you contact ECS and they say their arms will bend or break downwards away from the gas tank, then you could go for it, but i'd still rather leave that part stock.

I think the kit also comes with Meyle HD swaybar end links or tie rods. I've read from quite a few people that those have completely worn out in under 6 months.

Read this thread too:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079383
I read all this a while ago, but from what i remember, Based on his findings you really don't need all the rear m3 bits. I think only one or two of the arms were significantly different.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by avocet

M3 front upgrade is worth every cent with oem sport springs. I did mine with bils hd.

Knock out your alignment pins and it makes for a very satisfying upgrade.

What happens with the pin out? pros/cons?

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by Torgus

What happens with the pin out? pros/cons?

You can get a little bit more negative camber out of the front. No downside really

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

You can get a little bit more negative camber out of the front. No downside really

uneven tire wear?

[LMB335IS]

Certainty a possibility. I'm only running around -1.2 so it still wears fairly even. I think it maxs out at -1.5. Lots of variables in tire wear but if you max out negative camber I personally would be fairly vigilant with it.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by shirtpants_

Op, I wouldn't suggest getting the "upgraded" rear trailing arms. ECS's aftermarket ones may be more rigid, but they are not designed to break or bend like the OEM arms.

BMW designed the rear trailing arms with a weak point that will bend/break in case of an accident. They're designed to break/bend downwards, away from the gas tank, so they don't pierce it. ECS's may be stiffer, but it just isn't worth the trade off of possibly being burnt alive or having to replace the fuel tank...
If you contact ECS and they say their arms will bend or break downwards away from the gas tank, then you could go for it, but i'd still rather leave that part stock.

I think the kit also comes with Meyle HD swaybar end links or tie rods. I've read from quite a few people that those have completely worn out in under 6 months.

Read this thread too:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079383
I read all this a while ago, but from what i remember, Based on his findings you really don't need all the rear m3 bits. I think only one or two of the arms were significantly different.

+1. I think you can upgrade the bushings, but you should keep the arm stock.

[Fundguy1]

Get the m3 shock tower brace too. Not too expensive it was great bang for the buck.

[shirtpants_]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

You can get a little bit more negative camber out of the front. No downside really

Yeah, more negative camber, but you also slightly alter the KPI/SAI, and you move the Dave point further towards the center of the tire, slightly decreasing the scrub radius. Scrub radius helps steering feel to an extent, but too much is bad. To balance out the increased KPI you need more positive caster(you pretty much always want more degrees of cater than KPI), which is only adjustable with caster plates... To keep the same scrub radius you need wheel spacers or new wheels with a lower offset. These things don't move too much until you start dialing in significantly more neg camber than stock though(Maybe around 1 degree more than stock if all camber gain is done from the strut.).

I never hear this kind of stuff discussed here, its usually just "put on the biggest wheels and tires that will fit, and most neg camber you can, and the car is faster".
Changing one thing in the suspension changes five other things that you usually can't adjust without fully adjustable control arms, camber and caster plates etc...

Basically, all this stuff is a huge pain in the ass to measure out, calculate, and buy the right parts for. I wouldn't go too far away from the stock alignment until you've done all the math and know exactly how it will change the other components.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by shirtpants_

Yeah, more negative camber, but you also slightly alter the KPI/SAI, and you move the Dave point further towards the center of the tire, slightly decreasing the scrub radius. Scrub radius helps steering feel to an extent, but too much is bad. To balance out the increased KPI you need more positive caster(you pretty much always want more degrees of cater than KPI), which is only adjustable with caster plates... To keep the same scrub radius you need wheel spacers or new wheels with a lower offset. These things don't move too much until you start dialing in significantly more neg camber than stock though(Maybe around 1 degree more than stock if all camber gain is done from the strut.).

I never hear this kind of stuff discussed here, its usually just "put on the biggest wheels and tires that will fit, and most neg camber you can, and the car is faster".
Changing one thing in the suspension changes five other things that you usually can't adjust without fully adjustable control arms, camber and caster plates etc...

Basically, all this stuff is a huge pain in the ass to measure out, calculate, and buy the right parts for. I wouldn't go too far away from the stock alignment until you've done all the math and know exactly how it will change the other components.

Thanks for bringing this up, scrub radius is something everyone seems to skip over. It's one of the reasons I suggested Vorshlag camber plates earlier in the thread and why they were the first mod to the steering on my car. Currently running -3.8* but with 12mm spacers and maximum caster. Had SAI checked after the previous stages of alignments to make sure steering was always stable.