[IceMan007]

Hi All,

I have an 335D Autovogue E92 which was originally an SE with sports suspension, and the offside front driver's side spring has snapped. Now, I have never been happy with the wallowy handling of my current set up which I understand is just lowering springs on standard shocks.

The car has done approx 63K miles so I thought it was time the suspension was refreshed and as such, have ordered the B12 Pro Kit.

Now, this is where my confusion comes in. Reading through the forum, people suggest that when lowering the car (which I assume the B12 kit does do....don't know if it will actually "higher" mine!), the bumpstops should be replaced with smaller ones; the front ones for the E36 M3 and rear ones from the Z4M.

I am sure that when Autovogue put the lowering springs on their cars, they don't change the bumpstops, hence less travel for the shocks before they foul on the standard longer bumpstops.

So, my plan is to replace the bumpstops with the aforementioned ones whilst also replacing the top mounts?

Or should I not bother with the top mounts?

Option 1 = B12 Pro Kit
Option 2 = Option 1 + bump stops
Option 3 = Option 2 + top mounts

Eurofit have quoted me £190 for Option 1 and includes a hunter alignment. Is replacing the top mounts and bumpstops while they are replacing the shocks and springs quick to do, considering they already need to remove the former?

What do you think?

Anyone know where the topmounts and bumpstops can be sourced from at good prices?

[Fez335i]

I fitted a b12 kit to my car.. I don't know if the car would be lowered in your case as I'm not sure of what height autovogue springs are.

Compared to msport suspension, its about 10mm lower.

I replaced the top mounts but not the bump stops. The place I took it to didn't charge me any extra to change the top mounts as well so I'm assuming its a quick job if they're doing at all once.

I ordered top mounts from misterauto, AFAIK they were about £80.

Hope that helps

[Aragorn30d]

Do the top mounts while its apart. They're not that expensive compared with the labour to dismantle it all again! A pair of Lemforder mounts is around 50quid.

And its not only "quick to do", its part of the job already. They'll already be removing top mounts and bumpstops and refitting them to your new suspension.

[ed330D]

The 335D suspension is identical to M-Sport: lowered springs, firmer shocks, and firmer anti-roll bars.

What most owners fail to recognise is that after 63000 miles the fluid in the shocks is well past its sell-by-date, so any new shock will feel better, and that includes oem from BMW.

Lowering requires stronger springs, which will result in both less role and a firmer ride. It doesn't necessarily result in better handling, in fact on rough surfaces it will in all likelihood be worse.

[RajB]

As others have mentioned I wouldn't worry about the bump stops tbh. I would change the top mounts as they will be removed and replaced as part of the suspension swap anyway. It will more than likely raise the car up a touch of set to factory B12 specs from them. But you can lower or higher as you wish tbh. As for the hunter alignment that should really be done after a few hundred miles of driving to allow them to settle ideally.

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by IceMan007

Hi All,

I have an 335D Autovogue E92 which was originally an SE with sports suspension, and the offside front driver's side spring has snapped. Now, I have never been happy with the wallowy handling of my current set up which I understand is just lowering springs on standard shocks.

The car has done approx 63K miles so I thought it was time the suspension was refreshed and as such, have ordered the B12 Pro Kit.

Now, this is where my confusion comes in. Reading through the forum, people suggest that when lowering the car (which I assume the B12 kit does do....don't know if it will actually "higher" mine!), the bumpstops should be replaced with smaller ones; the front ones for the E36 M3 and rear ones from the Z4M.

I am sure that when Autovogue put the lowering springs on their cars, they don't change the bumpstops, hence less travel for the shocks before they foul on the standard longer bumpstops.

So, my plan is to replace the bumpstops with the aforementioned ones whilst also replacing the top mounts?

Or should I not bother with the top mounts?

Option 1 = B12 Pro Kit
Option 2 = Option 1 + bump stops
Option 3 = Option 2 + top mounts

Eurofit have quoted me £190 for Option 1 and includes a hunter alignment. Is replacing the top mounts and bumpstops while they are replacing the shocks and springs quick to do, considering they already need to remove the former?

What do you think?

Anyone know where the topmounts and bumpstops can be sourced from at good prices?

£190 to fit and align suspension? Do they pay their mechanics!?

Do all the bits that go with (within reason). The most expensive part is the B12 kit which you already have. No point not replacing parts to just have to do it in 12 months time.

If you have the money do the control arms too and switch to M3 arms. This really sharpens up the front end.

[danb21t]

When I fitted the B12 kit to my car the kit came with its own bump stops anyway, so they will be new when the kit is installed.

[IceMan007]

I ordered top mounts from misterauto, AFAIK they were about £80.

Fez, have you got the part numbers?

Do the top mounts while its apart. They're not that expensive compared with the labour to dismantle it all again! A pair of Lemforder mounts is around 50quid.

And its not only "quick to do", its part of the job already. They'll already be removing top mounts and bumpstops and refitting them to your new suspension.

Aragon, where did you order them from? Got part numbers?

What most owners fail to recognise is that after 63000 miles the fluid in the shocks is well past its sell-by-date, so any new shock will feel better, and that includes oem from BMW.

Ed, think you're right; have noticed increased tyre noise over the last few thousand miles and the car being a little more bouncy than before.

As others have mentioned I wouldn't worry about the bump stops tbh. I would change the top mounts as they will be removed and replaced as part of the suspension swap anyway. It will more than likely raise the car up a touch of set to factory B12 specs from them. But you can lower or higher as you wish tbh. As for the hunter alignment that should really be done after a few hundred miles of driving to allow them to settle ideally.

Raj, from what I understand, the kit comes with it's own bump stops; they are built into the shocks for the front and are external for the rear (included in the kit) and DanB has confirmed that they were included in his kit.

£190 to fit and align suspension? Do they pay their mechanics!?

Do all the bits that go with (within reason). The most expensive part is the B12 kit which you already have. No point not replacing parts to just have to do it in 12 months time.

If you have the money do the control arms too and switch to M3 arms. This really sharpens up the front end.

DJ, yes, was considering the M3 arms but would it not result in increased inner tyre wear? One thing I have noticed is the very heavy steering - I know it's hydraulic, but would the M3 arms make it more agile? What benefits do they bring?


Just need some help sourcing the correct top mounts. Do they need to be replaced for the front AND rear? Anyone know which ones I should be buying?

[Fez335i]

These are the ones I used:

http://m.mister-auto.co.uk/en/suspen...a10130277.html

[Aragorn30d]

I usually use Jason at All German Parts for topmounts and suchlike. Stick with decent makes such as Lemforder or TRW.

M3 arms wont cause increased tyre wear. They give you extra camber, sure, but its not mega-racecar camber, its just completely normal road-car camber.

For some reason the factory E90 suspension has very little camber (0.2 degrees IIRC) Most road cars (especially ones with any hint of performance) usually run around 1 to 1.5degrees of camber from the factory. If your getting up into the 2-3 degrees range you might start seeing some adverse effects (as well as less grip), but the camber increase from the M3 arms is desirable.

Incorrect toe settings are what causes tyres to get ruined on the insides, but thats what the alignment is for!

[IceMan007]

So, do I need to replace top mounts for the front and rear?

Or just the front?

[Aragorn30d]

Front are critical to suspension alignment, have bearings which wear out and they turn with the steering. To me they're a "must do".

The rears are less important, they simply locate the top of the shock absorber into the car. The spring and suspension alignment are all seperate, and thus they do very little compared with the fronts. If its a high mileage car its probably still worth doing them, but less important.

[mob17]

I replaced my suspension at 50k and didn't replace the top mounts. Then just under a year later my front left top mount siezed, so then i had to replace both, which wasn't nice. So its good you're planning to replace your mounts

[Dann]

Camber doesn't ruin tyres anyway. Unless it's excessive (>5%)
It's the Toe that ruins them.

I ran between -2.5 and -3.5deg camber on my E36 and they tyres wore equally across the width.

[Aragorn30d]

yeh thats been my experience too. The wifes A4 runs about 2 degrees and theres no abnormal wear.

[ade146]

You really should change the top mounts.
Beware there are two versions of top mount floating around both made by Lemforder. Ive had both types which appear to be OEM as the roundel has been ground off.
Type 1 is an aluminium hat with moulded camber pin.
Type 2 which was fitted as std is steel with removable camber pin.
Both same price and I managed to get the correct steel version from GSF.

[Aragorn30d]

Theres a sport one and a non-sport one, the part numbers are different

Get the sport ones

[IceMan007]

Thanks all, so I've got the B12 Pro kit and new front top mounts. The car will also have a full wheel alignment done after parts are fitted.

Can anyone suggest alignment specs for good road handling that won't cause excessive tyre wear? (Still using standard control arms).

Should I go with default 335/M3 or something custom?

[Aragorn30d]

Factory alignment is fine.

Best thing you can do for the alignment is get the M3 front arms and use M3 alignment settings.

But when still running the standard arms stick with standard settings.