01-15-2016, 02:51 PM | #133 |
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01-15-2016, 05:22 PM | #134 |
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01-17-2016, 01:02 PM | #135 | ||
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As others have said, xDrive helps when using the go pedal, but otherwise it adds weight, rotating inertia, and cost. That said, I expect the M cars to go there eventually as the HP wars rage. Quote:
1. Most people never bother with the proper tires on either an AWD or RWD. Of course AWD has more traction when the tires are the same poor, all season solution. 2. We accelerate much more often than we panic stop or turn aggressively during bad weather. This creates a bias towards selecting AWD despite the severely negative consequences involved with not being able to decelerate fast enough. How many cars are sold on 0-60 times or HP vs brakes? So many cars are undertired/underbraked but they sell like hot cakes with a gazillion HP. 3. Humans are really, really bad at assessing risk until it happens. Then it was "unavoidable" and "not" their fault. Yes, once you select the proper tires for your environment, AWD will provide more traction for acceleration than FWD/RWD, particularly on slippery/loose surfaces. Balance indeed. |
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01-17-2016, 01:10 PM | #136 | |
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Edit: We should start a "green" campaign to revoke the "clear road" policies of the 60s. We're causing massive damage because some people are too ignorant to buy the right tires. |
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01-17-2016, 01:45 PM | #137 | |
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Like last night, I was headed back from montreal for the car show. And there was a mini blizzard out, only a portion of the road was plowed, and someone in a KIA tried to overtake me because I was apparently going too slow, and the curved turn came up and the guy who was in the overtake lane, came in too fast and hit the left wall, and then slowed down before continuing. He never tried to overtake me again, and instead followed right behind me the entire way. Proper tires may help get rid of some dangers, but unfortunately, some people are still retarded, and will drive fast during weather where there is ice and snow on the ground. I adjust my speed accordingly, I will always go 10-20kph slower around corners if I know there is ice on the ground. |
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01-18-2016, 03:32 PM | #138 |
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The F31 was my first AWD drive car and its going to be impossible to go back to FWD, AWD is just so useful going up steep icy roads in the city and parking in 2 feet of snow. I don't really feel better on the highway, at speed the tires are making the real difference. X-drive is just so much fun without the traction control. I mostly drive without it aside from highway trips.
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01-18-2016, 03:58 PM | #139 |
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Xdrive is nice to have but tires make all the difference. Back in the day, I used a 318I as my DD with proper snow tires and never once I felt I was losing traction or was in any danger and that's in the snow belt part of Ontario. Xdrive with snows on is unbeatable...
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01-18-2016, 04:18 PM | #141 |
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Not exactly on topic, but food for thought with respect to AWD in general. I just paid almost $900 (discounted) for a single front half shaft for my wife's xDrive E61 because of a bum CV joint. The joints aren't serviceable in BMW's world - you buy a fully rebuilt unit. If I was paying someone for the axle and install, I imagine this would easily be over $2k.
There are hidden costs associated with AWD that may not be obvious when you're configuring your new ride. Be sure you've done your homework and understand what AWD can and can't do for you. Marketing is great, but it tends to be a bit biased. |
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03-03-2016, 12:26 PM | #142 |
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As usual, there are a lot of terrific insights and comments posted by the esteemed brethren. Most are correct- except when equating RWD+W = AWD +W. As seen in many other forums, and posted by very high ranking forum experts, all seasons or summers, the ranking is something like RWD>FWD>AWD in snow.
No debate that RWD is terrific in dry. On the track. Lighter, lower CoG, even if Shockwaving and Dinaning the springs on your xDrive (my 2016 project), you can always do the same and get better handling out of that RWD. But it is a myth is that AWD is only good when accelerating in snow. Actually, current xDrive is lots better than prev gen. Secondly, you do get all around more traction (more mechanical effort to more contact/rubber surface) and 100% front when rear slips. Amazing at regaining control on icy corners where I see RWDs+W still spin and loose mechanical traction as TC cuts power. Not the AWD. Gone, the front pulled it away. And the 53% frontal weight makes for even better winter handling- that was pure German foresight for weight distribution. We all know some RWD friends dumping 200lbs sandbags in their trunks to generate more downforce in winter. Does not really work. Finally, the big argument for the AWD is temperature. 10-20F or -20 -10C snow-belt residents (not southern Ontario, too warm) is that, at those temperatures lasting weeks, those Winter tires behave more like all-seasons and summers. The best winter tire reach a limit around -20C. At -30 you are on summers (not knowing it until braking). Back to RWD<FWD<AWD it is not even funny how the AWD takes off and nearly runs circles around RWD+W in those cold months. RWD handling advantage is nullified- no car can be pushed close to any half-limit. The AWD is just a nice little controllable beast. Yes you can still drive an RWD but likely watching the AWD or FWD dart by. As AWD have penetrated the market the last 20 years, the differences are far more obvious than 20 years ago when a RWD BMW + winter was still more sophisticated (TC, etc) than your average FWDs out there. That edge is gone today. FWD's are pretty smart, and AWDs quite more as well than in 1995. Can't wait to buy an RWD as a summer car. Last edited by Musashi; 03-03-2016 at 12:35 PM.. |
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03-03-2016, 01:37 PM | #143 | |
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Like I mentioned before if you don't have traction, you will be skidding no matter how many wheels you have. I just need to post this again to prove my point.
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Last edited by hollandog; 03-03-2016 at 01:43 PM.. |
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03-03-2016, 01:53 PM | #144 |
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Geez, why does this argument keep coming up?
1) Yes, plenty of people prefer the feel of RWD to AWD (and I count myself among them even though I no longer have an RWD car) 2) Yes, tires make the most difference. *However*, putting power down on all wheels instead of two helps with recovery (when you can put a little bit power down using the front wheels, you can use it to shift weight backwards to get traction back if the tail is spinning). Assuming there is some traction (i.e. you are not using the wrong tires), anyone who argues that AWD isn't superior *for traction* in both wet and snow has either not experienced the limits of both or is in denial. Finally, you're less likely to get in trouble with an AWD car if you're really pushing it. Strictly for traction, and with the same tires, AWD is better than FWD, which is better than RWD. For feel, RWD is better than AWD, which is better than FWD, although rear-biased AWD systems can get pretty close to RWD. |
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