swirl flap delete/ intake manifold cleaning

BB_cuda · 06-16-2016, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ideloera

I had the flaps removed about 1 week ago from my car by BPC, my 335d had 28k miles when this was done and had a fair bit of carbon. If anyone is interested in buying the flap actuator motor, pm me.

Hmm, you are running with actuator unplugged from harness. I wasn't sure if my tuner coded out so I left actuator plugged in. I bought delete plates from UK ebay complete with new seals. Vendor brand is named X8R or XR8. I get the order of characters mixed up, sorry. These plates are aluminum but other vendors make them in plastic. Some vendors describe as 32 mm while others call them 33 mm. The ones that you don't want are (I believe) 23 mm.

I have not done any dyno (I know, for shame for shame) to quantify but can't really tell any difference with or without the swirls there. I just figure if it doesn't matter that simpler is better. Your mileage may vary.

ideloera · 06-16-2016, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

Hmm, you are running with actuator unplugged from harness. I wasn't sure if my tuner coded out so I left actuator plugged in. I bought delete plates from UK ebay complete with new seals. Vendor brand is named X8R or XR8. I get the order of characters mixed up, sorry. These plates are aluminum but other vendors make them in plastic. Some vendors describe as 32 mm while others call them 33 mm. The ones that you don't want are (I believe) 23 mm.

I have not done any dyno (I know, for shame for shame) to quantify but can't really tell any difference with or without the swirls there. I just figure if it doesn't matter that simpler is better. Your mileage may vary.

I purchased the delete plugs from X8R on ebay, the gaskets for the intake manifold I purchased from FCP Euro. Yup, running with the actuator unplugged, completely removed.

As far as dyno results are concerned, I dont have specific dyno results where the swirl flap deletes are on and then off (all else being the same). However my dyno results pre-modification (stock) are:
max hp: 243
max tq: 415

After dpf,egr, scr delete (cat converter gutted), and swirl flap delete:
max hp: 340
max tq: 534

Car feels great.

Jet Wrench · 06-16-2016, 01:45 PM

No noticeable low end performance issues. Piece of mind knowing you're engines not going to eat a swirl flap! $35.00 US for machined blank offs.

BB_cuda · 06-16-2016, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Wrench

No noticeable low end performance issues. Piece of mind knowing you're engines not going to eat a swirl flap! $35.00 US for machined blank offs.

FWIW, its the euro version of swirl flaps that had issues with little screws coming loose and engine eating them. To my knowledge, no one on either of the main diesel forums has reported this type of failure. I'm with you though. It is 100% certainty that one of those screws won't be eaten by my engine now. With swirls on, chances won't be much different but you never know.

ideloera, perhaps I will unplug my actuator and see what happens. I wrote my tuner but he hadn't answered about whether the swirls were coded out.

ideloera · 06-16-2016, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

ideloera, perhaps I will unplug my actuator and see what happens. I wrote my tuner but he hadn't answered about whether the swirls were coded out.

Let us know how that goes. Im interested to see if unplugging the actuator will throw some codes if the tuner had set the swirl flaps to open.

BB_cuda · 07-18-2016, 12:36 PM

I got an answer back from JR Auto for my stage 2 race tune. He says the swirl flaps are commanded open but that I may still get a limp mode or DTC if I disconnect the swirl flap actuator. This explains why I saw no noticeable change when I put on the blanking plates.

kydiesel35 · 07-20-2016, 07:07 PM

What are the advantages for swirl flap delete on USA 335d?

Is this something that we can mechanically agree on with proper tuning?

ideloera · 07-20-2016, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

I got an answer back from JR Auto for my stage 2 race tune. He says the swirl flaps are commanded open but that I may still get a limp mode or DTC if I disconnect the swirl flap actuator. This explains why I saw no noticeable change when I put on the blanking plates.

Interesting. Thanks for reporting back.

BPC was able to delete the swirl flaps in my car and also remove the swirl flap actuator (looking at it now next to me lol). I have driven my car with the swirl flaps deleted and the swirl flap actuator off for about 2k miles, no problems at all.

ideloera · 07-20-2016, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydiesel35

What are the advantages for swirl flap delete on USA 335d?

Is this something that we can mechanically agree on with proper tuning?

Advantages? Well, just piece of mind that the swirl flaps wont rattle off with time, though that seems to only a problem with European diesels at this point. Also, carbon wont build up in the intake manifold as fast.

With proper tuning you can have the swirl flaps deleted as well as the actuator motor, had BPC do this to my 2011 335d.

335dsleeper · 07-20-2016, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ideloera

Advantages? Well, just piece of mind that the swirl flaps wont rattle off with time, though that seems to only a problem with European diesels at this point. Also, carbon wont build up in the intake manifold as fast.

With proper tuning you can have the swirl flaps deleted as well as the actuator motor, had BPC do this to my 2011 335d.

I don't think the later M57 has that issues but, that's why I did it too. The added performance doesn't hurt either!

BB_cuda · 07-20-2016, 11:35 PM

2 things, whether or not actuator is there and plugged into harness has nothing to do with performance if flaps have been deleted. Surely we aren't worried about the 6 oz it weighs. Second thing is North American swirl flaps have improved design with no issues with screws coming loose. But I'm with you guys that if its not there, it's now impossible for those screws to be eaten by engine.

ideloera · 07-20-2016, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

whether or not actuator is there and plugged into harness has nothing to do with performance if flaps have been deleted. Surely we aren't worried about the 6 oz it weighs ...

I think that goes without saying. If the flaps have been deleted then no need to keep unnecessary components, so might as well get rid of the actuator.

kydiesel35 · 07-21-2016, 09:22 AM

Cool.

Oilburnerfan · 10-26-2016, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Wrench

No noticeable low end performance issues. Piece of mind knowing you're engines not going to eat a swirl flap! $35.00 US for machined blank offs.

Who sells machined ones for $35.00?

All the ones I see on eBay look like they are cast metal or there are also plastic ones.

Which ones do you guys recommend?

Also are the i6 or X8R ones good?

Puerto Rican 335d · 10-26-2016, 12:15 PM

AAperformance has them for $39

http://www.fixmyvw.com/swirl-flap-de...5d-and-x5-35d/

bayerischer · 11-01-2016, 09:05 AM

i had them removed and regret big time. they help swirl the air for better combustion and lower fuel consumption and also better power and torque delivery! i can attest to that, where I lost both top end and also low end power. people who deny this either never drove their car to the limits, so they don't feel the difference, or the ones that had their car tuned or dpf deleted that may mask the effects, however, if they keep the swirl flaps on, they would have even better performance and fuel economy....all this talk that flaps will fall into the engine stemmed from some guy or two with old m57's from 2004, and they filled the internet with their complaints to get some damage to the BMW and get some reimbursement and indie shops and tuners saw another easy bucks....while putting more pressure and fuel to your boost and turbo, so you feel the power...

my mechanic is on holiday, but I sent him PM that I want flaps back, so will see how it goes....

335dsleeper · 11-01-2016, 09:36 AM

^ yea, no one drives their car to the limits. Lol

Pretty sure all the high hp cars have them deleted.

In addition, it's impossible to lose top end power as the flaps are wide open anyways and only cause restriction. So...

If you had a noticable negative effect, you might have something else going on. I look forward to you reporting back once you have the flaps reinstalled.

It'd be interesting if you did some before and after times, either log with torque or similar app or a vbox and again once you have them reinstalled.

I look forward to you posting actual data. It's very likely you have something else going on.

06-16-2016, 01:45 PM	#25
Jet Wrench New Member 5 Rep 24 Posts Drives: 2011 335d US Spec Join Date: May 2016 Location: Dallas Texas iTrader: (0)	I did a SFD on my 2002 320d wagon... No noticeable low end performance issues. Piece of mind knowing you're engines not going to eat a swirl flap! $35.00 US for machined blank offs.
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07-18-2016, 12:36 PM	#28
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	I got an answer back from JR Auto for my stage 2 race tune. He says the swirl flaps are commanded open but that I may still get a limp mode or DTC if I disconnect the swirl flap actuator. This explains why I saw no noticeable change when I put on the blanking plates.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-20-2016, 07:07 PM	#29
kydiesel35 Lieutenant 168 Rep 460 Posts Drives: 2016 X5 35d Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: KY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 335d [0.00]	What are the advantages for swirl flap delete on USA 335d? Is this something that we can mechanically agree on with proper tuning?
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07-20-2016, 11:35 PM	#33
BB_cuda Brigadier General 796 Rep 3,572 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	2 things, whether or not actuator is there and plugged into harness has nothing to do with performance if flaps have been deleted. Surely we aren't worried about the 6 oz it weighs. Second thing is North American swirl flaps have improved design with no issues with screws coming loose. But I'm with you guys that if its not there, it's now impossible for those screws to be eaten by engine.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-21-2016, 09:22 AM	#35
kydiesel35 Lieutenant 168 Rep 460 Posts Drives: 2016 X5 35d Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: KY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 335d [0.00]	Cool.
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10-26-2016, 12:15 PM	#37
Puerto Rican 335d Brigadier General 236 Rep 3,488 Posts Drives: Montego Blue 335d Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Puerto Rico(Dominican Republic 03/2017) iTrader: (0)	AAperformance has them for $39 http://www.fixmyvw.com/swirl-flap-de...5d-and-x5-35d/ __________________ RENNtech Flash(Lenny Wu)/WAGNER IC Enkei Rajin 18"/Execuhitch Hitch/Koni FSD Soft Ride Bike Rack/Brava Synthetic Motor Oil(Made in Puerto Rico)/Meth(in the works)/CBU done w Andrew EGR Race Pipe (whoa! what an animal it is now)
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11-01-2016, 09:05 AM	#38
bayerischer Private 8 Rep 78 Posts Drives: 335d e92 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: central europe iTrader: (0)	i had them removed and regret big time. they help swirl the air for better combustion and lower fuel consumption and also better power and torque delivery! i can attest to that, where I lost both top end and also low end power. people who deny this either never drove their car to the limits, so they don't feel the difference, or the ones that had their car tuned or dpf deleted that may mask the effects, however, if they keep the swirl flaps on, they would have even better performance and fuel economy....all this talk that flaps will fall into the engine stemmed from some guy or two with old m57's from 2004, and they filled the internet with their complaints to get some damage to the BMW and get some reimbursement and indie shops and tuners saw another easy bucks....while putting more pressure and fuel to your boost and turbo, so you feel the power... my mechanic is on holiday, but I sent him PM that I want flaps back, so will see how it goes....
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-01-2016, 09:36 AM	#39
335dsleeper Banned 394 Rep 1,622 Posts Drives: 09' 335d 10'35D Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Suffolk, va iTrader: (0)	^ yea, no one drives their car to the limits. Lol Pretty sure all the high hp cars have them deleted. In addition, it's impossible to lose top end power as the flaps are wide open anyways and only cause restriction. So... If you had a noticable negative effect, you might have something else going on. I look forward to you reporting back once you have the flaps reinstalled. It'd be interesting if you did some before and after times, either log with torque or similar app or a vbox and again once you have them reinstalled. I look forward to you posting actual data. It's very likely you have something else going on.
	Appreciate 0 Quote