[jclay11]

This is the story of my experience with my 2007 E92 335i, which I was warned about was a problem year, but I fell so in love with the car and got such a deal that I couldn't resist, and now I realize I should have. When the HPFP went out, I was literally ONE WEEK out of the extended warranty on HPFP and injectors. This is worst case scenario.

So this year I've replaced the oil filter housing gasket, water pump, thermostat, brake pads, rotors, tires, wheels, battery, and recently the valve cover gasket started leaking. At the same time the high pressure fuel pump started giving me plausibility codes so I ordered a new HPFP to be safe, and I ordered a new valve cover kit from ECS because I had heard of the covers being cracked or warped when removed.

I've done all work to this car myself, so I got the HPFP and VC installed and everything is good with the world, then a week after I start getting misfires in Cylinder 6. I try replacing the coil, still misfires, try replacing the plug, still misfires so bad that check engine light comes on and i'm in limp mode. SO at this point i'm ready to get rid of the car. I order three replacement REFURBISHED index 09 injectors for bank 2, then replace and code them. I think I made a fatal flaw when replacing injector 4, the black bolt that connects the injector hold down plate to the head came out crooked and stripped the bolt. From what I can tell this hole doesn't actually go into the motor but rather stops at the end of the threads and isn't open. I did something stupid and put the bolt back in and it holds down the hold down plate enough to keep the injectors still. My dumb ass also didn't put decoupling rings on any of the three injectors. I drive the car around the block and one of the injectors (4) fuel lines pops off and leaks gas everywhere. I tighten it back because apparently I didn't before.

The car runs fine for one night then bank 1 starts misfiring, I believe this is because the bank 1 injectors were index 10 so I order three more refurbished 09 injectors. I've only paid $300 for injectors at this point, if I had to buy new injectors the car would be in the garage for at least 4 months.

I take out 4,5,6 and put decoupling rings on, realizing my mistake at this point but I'm afraid the holes into the head are a little ovaled because they slide in sort of easy. They are still held very still however and can't be jiggled when the hold down plate is on. I then install 1,2,3 and code them in. Keep in mind these are all refurbished injectors from ebay with a 2 year warranty.

I start the car, cold start, no fuel to the line so its a long crank, rough start, then runs fine....for about 30 seconds, then starts to idle like ****. Throws 4 codes, Cyl 1 and 2 misfire codes, mult misfire code, and misfire due to low fuel (I have a 1/4 tank at this point I don't think this is the issue) (no CEL). I clear the codes, let the car idle for a minute or two, read codes again and misfire in 1 and 2 (no CEL). I clear the codes, drive around the block in my neighborhood twice (Less than 1/2 mile trip both times) car runs smooth as butter when i'm touching the gas but is like dog **** when i'm at a stop, feels like misfires, sputters, shaking, 750rpm idle rather than normal 5-600. Pulls hard. I get back to the house and read for codes and nothing, clean of codes but still idling rough. That was last night so I drive it today to work and back (way there through neighborhood and way back on highway going 80). Got a code 29E0 fuel mixture control on the way there, I've read e85 people and bad O2 Sensors get this, clear the code, drive home on highway, hard pull on on ramp, DCI sings and BOV screeches like normal. Still idles rough as hell at stop, cold start when leaving work felt awful. No codes when I got home.

These Index 9 injectors tick loud as hell like I'm driving an older diesel but I've read that's normal and I still have beauty cover off so that's some extra noise. I'm hearing a noise every now and then if I listen very closely with the hood popped and my ear near the injectors that sounds like a buzz, like an arc between the coil and spark plug but all the coils are on tight and plugs are torqued to spec.

I do not know what to do at this point. I'm a 20 y/o college student and this car has bankrupted me. I love it more than anything but I feel like it's betrayed or maybe I betrayed it with refurb injectors.

Does anyone have any reccomendations?
I contacted the ebay seller and they are sending 2 replacement injectors because 1 and 2 were misfiring so I can see if replacing them fixes the problem. If not I can always return whichever 2 don't work to them.

I don't see why intake valve buildup would cause such a terrible problem out of nowhere like this, the car ran better than ever and idled like heaven at 500 rpm the week between the VC and HPFP being replaced and injector 6 taking a dump.

Should I check the O2 sensor and if so which one? The only semi performance mods to the car are Blowoff Valve, ER charge pipe, Muffler Delete, and BMS DCI. I never even tuned it out of fear of my injectors or HPFP not being able to handle it (what irony).

Did my idiot self destroy my head when I forced the injector 3-4 hold down plate bolt back into the head to keep them in place? Do I own a 300hp garage ornament?

That's every detail of the story, all my decisions. If you have any ideas, I'm welcome to them. The 335i has 87k miles on the clock. If I can get it fixed I just want it gone because with my luck the turbos will smoke a week after (knock on wood). I can supply any pictures anyone needs, I'm desperate for help. And please be honest if I've majorly ****ed up this car with the decoupling rings too.

tl;dr I replaced injectors with refurb index 09's, car idles rough as hell but when driving it drives great except at stops. Misfire codes on cylinder 1 and 2 after first startup when injectors were replaced but didn't happen after driving, then 29E0 code (fuel mixture control) once when driving ten minutes to work and didn't happen on the way back. Pulls hard, drives great, idles like shit.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

First, it sounds like you're spending a lot of money on "just in case" parts. I don't blame you -I like to do the same thing- but if you're low on cash it's just not a great method.

As to your technical mistakes, no sense in beating you up for them, what's done is done and all of us have done foolish things before, but you have to learn. I think your lesson is to slow down and thoroughly read before doing projects. Slow it way down man, it's always faster to do it once the correct way. Some guys are very speedy -I ain't one of them.

Finally as to your issues, you really need to take a log and also tell us what tune/etc you have. Details. Start with a starting/idle log. We'll need high pressure fuel, low pressure fuel, lambda for both banks, fuel trims (long and short) for both banks, all the standard stuff. There are a lot of tuners and experience here that can help you slowly track it down. Get logs and post them at datazap. We'll help how we can.

Chris

[jclay11]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

First, it sounds like you're spending a lot of money on "just in case" parts. I don't blame you -I like to do the same thing- but if you're low on cash it's just not a great method.

As to your technical mistakes, no sense in beating you up for them, what's done is done and all of us have done foolish things before, but you have to learn. I think your lesson is to slow down and thoroughly read before doing projects. Slow it way down man, it's always faster to do it once the correct way. Some guys are very speedy -I ain't one of them.

Finally as to your issues, you really need to take a log and also tell us what tune/etc you have. Details. Start with a starting/idle log. We'll need high pressure fuel, low pressure fuel, lambda for both banks, fuel trims (long and short) for both banks, all the standard stuff. There are a lot of tuners and experience here that can help you slowly track it down. Get logs and post them at datazap. We'll help how we can.

Chris

I've had trouble getting INPA to interact with my car so I'll get in touch with my friend who coded my injectors and get all those logs tomorrow evening.

[YoungBlood]

I hear ya about these cars being hard to maintain as a college student haha. If not for lack of money, a lack of time to wrench on it 2-3 times a week. I've considered dumping mine as well, with all the stupid little issues I've dealt with in under a year of ownership. It's actually sort of crazy how often threads pop up about these cars being expensive to fix, and own and people wanting to sell them, never seen anything else like it on any other platform... But buying another car isn't exactly cheap either, after sales tax, registration, and a downpayment, I could go throw all new index 12's in the car, and new oem turbos, as preventative fixes. But yeah, we need idling logs. Also, if those injectors are reman'd, it's possible the flow rates are not the same as when they were stock, and the coding might not be accurate.

[limitdown]

Misfires have directly contributed to massive loss of hair from my head.

I've burned through 3+ full sets of coils, 3+ full sets of spark plugs and 5+ pre-cat O2 sensors. In between all that burning, I replaced all injectors with new Index 12's.
It's been 1k miles since a misfire. Keeping my fingers crossed.

What happened to me many times was that I would replace one thing that contributed to the misfires, but that misfiring had already damaged something else.

For example, my 5992/95770 NGK spark plugs were not gapped precisely, which caused occasional misfires in some of my bank2 cylinders. After 2 months, that misfiring damaged the bank2 precat O2 sensor.

One way to spot problems early on is to watch MHD's AFR gauges while driving. If one of the banks' number is sluggish or doesn't shoot up quickly to 235 after letting off the gas, it could be a leaky injector(s) or a fried O2 sensor.
My fried O2 sensor threw various codes including:
2C3E Lambda probe in front of cat 2, control or cable
2C2E "", thrust control
29E1 Fuel mixture control 2

This platform gets very expensive very quickly after warranty expires.

[jclay11]

Originally Posted by limitdown

What happened to me many times was that I would replace one thing that contributed to the misfires, but that misfiring had already damaged something else.

For example, my 5992/95770 NGK spark plugs were not gapped precisely, which caused occasional misfires in some of my bank2 cylinders. After 2 months, that misfiring damaged the bank2 precat O2 sensor.

My fried O2 sensor threw various codes including:
2C3E Lambda probe in front of cat 2, control or cable
2C2E "", thrust control
29E1 Fuel mixture control 2

So I take it 29E0 means bank 1, and 29E1 means bank 2 mixture control?
This would match up with the cylinder 1 and 2 misfire codes that showed up earlier since they're bank 1. Are the pre-cat O2 Sensors easily accessible from the top or are they under the car? Also all plugs were replaced in february, but I just replaced cylinder 6's plug when I was trying to solve the misfire without buying an injector. And do you think the car running like this could damage the new injectors that are working okay right now?

[limitdown]

Originally Posted by jclay11

So I take it 29E0 means bank 1, and 29E1 means bank 2 mixture control?
This would match up with the cylinder 1 and 2 misfire codes that showed up earlier since they're bank 1. Are the pre-cat O2 Sensors easily accessible from the top or are they under the car? Also all plugs were replaced in february, but I just replaced cylinder 6's plug when I was trying to solve the misfire without buying an injector. And do you think the car running like this could damage the new injectors that are working okay right now?

The 0 and 1 correspond to the banks.
O2 sensors are mounted on the downpipes. My shop and I have always accessed them from underneath.

I don't think the plugs and misfires would damage the injectors. I think the reman'd injectors you got might have already been messed up when you got them. As mentioned by another person above, the real flow rates after reman'ing might be different from the original rates printed on the injectors.

After I turned up the boost to 21psi, I've never been able to run stock or 3-pronged plugs without misfiring. The 1-step colder 5992/95770's misfired a lot when mis-gapped. After regapping very precisely, it solved my misfires.

[mxchris727]

First off, "re-manufactured" injectors are a myth. Our injectors are built in a way that are non-serviceable and can not be opened. The internals are molded into the casting during the manufacturing process. The ones on ebay are a scam; they are just used. the only way to "fix" injection issues are new (or used) index 11 or higher injectors; no other way.

Your past issues are all normal maintenance and wear items for any car. The problems you are having now are directly from your cheap "refurbished" injectors and improper repair procedures. These are expensive cars. Being a broke 20 year old with a capital intensive car is irresponsible. Plus, not repairing the car properly leads to much more expensive repairs in the long run (ie, ruining the cylinder head by not using decoupling elements).

To install used injectors, you MUST buy the tool set that installs/compresses new seals onto them. Without it, you will have combustion blow-by that will damage the head.

[MadeInPhilly]

Seems to be the trend. 07-08 335i are easily under $10k mark now. Younger buyers see the low purchase price for a semi fast and luxury car. The maintenance costs don't get cheaper however. Plus all the cheaper N54s are all over 100k mark which is when all the known issues tend to appear. With mods it decreases reliability even more and increases wear. I'm at a point where I want to get rid of mine but I would take a big hit. Already spent $3k or more on all the oil leaks, replacing turbos, waterpump, etc.

[M-335]

Originally Posted by mxchris727

First off, "re-manufactured" injectors are a myth. Our injectors are built in a way that are non-serviceable and can not be opened. The internals are molded into the casting during the manufacturing process. The ones on ebay are a scam; they are just used. the only way to "fix" injection issues are new (or used) index 11 or higher injectors; no other way.

Your past issues are all normal maintenance and wear items for any car. The problems you are having now are directly from your cheap "refurbished" injectors and improper repair procedures. These are expensive cars. Being a broke 20 year old with a capital intensive car is irresponsible. Plus, not repairing the car properly leads to much more expensive repairs in the long run (ie, ruining the cylinder head by not using decoupling elements).

To install used injectors, you MUST buy the tool set that installs/compresses new seals onto them. Without it, you will have combustion blow-by that will damage the head.

Very True (can't be rebuilt) Anyone who tells you they can clean those injectors are lying as Asnu has sold only 2 service machines in the world that can service/clean those injectors properly & from our conversation know one has one in the usa.

Maybe the Chinese has 1, are in fact cleaning them & than reselling them but again wouldn't trust it at all. If you have remanufactured/serviced injectors from ebay (replace them all)