BMW Sticking with Diesels in the United States

The Automotive Enthusiast · 02-07-2017, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John@BPC

I'll also just leave this here... STAGE 4 BPC

WOWOWOWOW!!!!

Eddien123 · 02-07-2017, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Wood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddien123

I'm currently in a position to only have one car. I don't really need two cars but one day when I start a family id love to have a diesel daily driver. Why not? Better economy and something about diesels are just cool..

Nothing makes me happier than the stock 425lbft of torque on my 335D. Well, other than the opportunity to increase output dramatically via a tune (and other supporting mods). I love my twin turbo diesel so much that I kind of want another one to replace my f80m once the lease is up...

It's rare that I see a 335d around my area. And I've never had the pleasure of driving one I hope to move into one one day

Flying Ace · 02-07-2017, 02:11 PM

current BMW diesel owner here...I can say, my current diesel will be the last diesel I will ever own for many reasons both controllable and uncontrollable by BMW:

1. my use of the X5 has changed since purchasing. It is now a short distance urban car, so the style of driving is in line with what a PHEV does best. My intown mpgs are like 15 with all the stop and go and hills in SF.

2. the diesel emissions equipment continues to fail. The car's been in the shop for some diesel emissions equipment replacement at least 6 times since 2012. If BMW is willing to warranty the parts for 10-years, then I may reconsider.

I'm likely going to replace my E70 with a X5 40e, Cayenne SEH or a XC90 T8

jpnh · 02-07-2017, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

current BMW diesel owner here...I can say, my current diesel will be the last diesel I will ever own for many reasons both controllable and uncontrollable by BMW:

1. my use of the X5 has changed since purchasing. It is now a short distance urban car, so the style of driving is in line with what a PHEV does best. My intown mpgs are like 15 with all the stop and go and hills in SF.

2. the diesel emissions equipment continues to fail. The car's been in the shop for some diesel emissions equipment replacement at least 6 times since 2012. If BMW is willing to warranty the parts for 10-years, then I may reconsider.

I'm likely going to replace my E70 with a X5 40e, Cayenne SEH or a XC90 T8

Emmissions equiptment likely fails because its being used for short hop trips

Thats not what diesels excel at......most everyone would steer you AWAY from a diesel given driving requirements

They need to be run and excel at distance useage

Flying Ace · 02-07-2017, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpnh

Emmissions equiptment likely fails because its being used for short hop trips

Thats not what diesels excel at......most everyone would steer you AWAY from a diesel given driving requirements

They need to be run and excel at distance useage

I would agree if that was actually true. My 2012 has 65k miles on it, that's not exactly low mileage, and I have records of failures when car was driven about almost 18k miles a year. Based on this and other owner experiences on bimmerfest (and not just X5 owners, but also E90 335d owners), they also have the same issues with more usage. BMW just recently extended warranty on a few of the parts, but not other key parts.

Flying Ace · 02-07-2017, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddien123

It's rare that I see a 335d around my area. And I've never had the pleasure of driving one I hope to move into one one day

I did an extended test drive of one. It's a hoot to drive. Much quicker than numbers indicate.

Between that test drive of the E90 335d and a full day of having a E70 X5d on a loan, that's what made me decide on a E70 X5d. Power delivery is amazing for a diesel.

jpnh · 02-07-2017, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

I would agree if that was actually true. My 2012 has 65k miles on it, that's not exactly low mileage, and I have records of failures when car was driven about almost 18k miles a year. Based on this and other owner experiences on bimmerfest (and not just X5 owners, but also E90 335d owners), they also have the same issues with more usage. BMW just recently extended warranty on a few of the parts, but not other key parts.

Sorry, when I say low mileage, I should have been more clear

Short trips are not diesels forte

I have friends with BMW diesels that do 50 mile each way commutes with few issues with them

ymmv

Flying Ace · 02-07-2017, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpnh

Sorry, when I say low mileage, I should have been more clear

Short trips are not diesels forte

I have friends with BMW diesels that do 50 mile each way commutes with few issues with them

ymmv

agreed the short trips are terrible and doesn't allow for DPF regen to occur and can cause CBU. But that's just one emissions part.

Again, my car used to be owned my a real estate agent who put 18k a year on it in San Diego. It still had records of emissions equipment failures during that ownership.

vadimo · 02-07-2017, 05:34 PM

you have one important part to this technology; diesel particulate filter (or DPF) designed to remove diesel particulate matter or soot from the exhaust gas of a diesel engine - it traps this crap and when you are doing high speed journey it begins to burn it.... called regeneration.

i believe every few years diesel advance, my understanding is that with F30 is much improved and BMW tweak it every year they release facelift/lci version, i been told that latest F30 DPF can now regenerate during town trips. Also it is serviced same as petrol now at same intervals.

but here in UK and EU concerns are growing that it is poses serious health risks by outputting nitrogen oxide (NOx) and DPF doesn't capture all this crap.

but with many countries have diesel cars make up over 50% of vehicles on roads and from what i see people are still buying them!

It is also unclear when some countries state that they will start to clamp down on diesel cars, do they mean older models pre 2000s or all age? Heavy goods vehicles such as busses and lorries? Is my 2014 320D really that hazardous? If we all abandon diesel cars what is alternative? Limited choice of battery powered cars and unprepared charging infrastructure? Is it right to say that petrol is better because it is polluting with different kind of toxins, carbon monoxide CO2?

Too many variables and inconclusive information to make an informative choice

jpnh · 02-07-2017, 05:49 PM

The focus on the so called health risks of diesel are hyper focused on while the highly carcinogenic small diameter emmissions from gasoline engines that embed themselves deep in lung tissue and are nearly impossible for the body to expel is totally ignored

BMWrules7 · 02-07-2017, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

Quote:

The past 16 months have been something of a stress test, not just for Volkswagen but for the diesel auto market as a whole. VolkswagenÃÂÃÂs diesel emissions scandal brought increased EPA scrutiny, resulting in established models from Mercedes-Benz and BMW put on hold and hopes of ever seeing performance diesels such as the Volkswagen GTD and BMWÃÂÃÂs awesome new quad-turbo ÃÂÃÂsuper dieselÃÂÃÂ effectively dashed.

With diesel versions of the Mazda CX-5, Chevrolet Equinox, and Ford F-150 all due this yearÃÂÃÂas well as the return of the Chevrolet Cruze dieselÃÂÃÂit would be premature to call diesels dead for the United States. Yet with VW sitting it out, Audi considering diesel only for SUVs, and Mercedes-Benz in the process of reevaluating its product plans, the market is hardly continuing where it left off. So we asked Fritz Steinparzer, BMWÃÂÃÂs global head of diesel-engine development, how the diesel turmoil will affect BMW.

To sum up: HeÃÂÃÂs pragmatically optimistic about dieselsÃÂÃÂ future in the BMW product mixÃÂÃÂalthough itÃÂÃÂs clear that what happens in Europe over the next few years will ultimately drive the technologyÃÂÃÂs U.S. fate.

Diesels have made up more than 50 percent of new-vehicle sales in Europe in recent years, but a recent study anticipated that diesels will comprise just 9 percent of that market by 2030. ThatÃÂÃÂs partly due to tougher new emissions rules and the cost of meeting them. The baton is expected to be passed from diesel to hybrid and electric models, especially among small carsÃÂÃÂand that could impact what we see in the U.S.

WeÃÂÃÂll see a continued downward trend in diesel small-car sales globally, Steinparzer admitted. ÃÂÃÂBut in the bigger, heavier cars, from the customer point of view, diesels are still a very robust solution,ÃÂÃÂ he said. In the U.S., itÃÂÃÂs far less a matter of meeting technical hurdles than a discussion with the public. ÃÂÃÂFor passenger cars, if there is enough customer demand we will offer it,ÃÂÃÂ Steinparzer said, ÃÂÃÂbecause technically, the solution to meet regulatory demands, we have it.ÃÂÃÂ

The EPA and CARB did a lot of additional tests to other manufacturersÃÂÃÂ products after the VW issue, according to Steinparzer. ÃÂÃÂThey never had a problem with our cars here [in the U.S.],ÃÂÃÂ he said, emphasizing that he prefers the American approach and its well-defined driving cycles over EuropeÃÂÃÂs emissions standards, which are based on engine tests and often donÃÂÃÂt correlate well to tailpipe emissions. More realistic driving-based emissions testing methods for Europe will commence in September, and a tighter set of limits will go into effect in 2020.

Meeting U.S. Diesel Emissions Regulations IsnÃÂÃÂt the Real Issue

In order to make diesels progressively cleaner in the future, better fuels arenÃÂÃÂt necessary, according to Steinparzer, because BMW has a toolbox of several strategies available. Those include further improvements to the injection system and combustion processÃÂÃÂto drive down raw ÃÂÃÂengine outÃÂÃÂ emissionsÃÂÃÂand/or applying wider exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) strategies that work closer to full load. And because urea-injection systems, which spray a solution into the hot exhaust stream to reduce NOx, work best in a specific temperature range (540 to 930 degrees Fahrenheit), engineers are considering either a post-injection system or an electrically heated catalyst for the exhaust system. BMW diesels are also due to get a new round of updates to their onboard diagnostics, Steinparzer said.

EPA scrutiny led BMW to suspend production of its U.S.-spec diesel models in late 2016. Although those models were cleared after some additional emissions testing and recertified by late summer, it has taken time to bring them back into the mix. BMW 328d models returned to dealerships in October, while X3 xDrive28d models returned in December; fresh stocks of the BMW X5 xDrive35d are arriving in dealerships this month.

That said, thereÃÂÃÂs some hope in the numbers. To our request about pent-up demand for diesels, BMW pointed to sales of the 3-series family, which were up more than 28 percent in December versus the same month in 2015. Although BMW North America doesnÃÂÃÂt break sales down by submodelÃÂÃÂand that increase could include more than a few of the 330e iPerformance plug-in hybrid that was also introduced during this same periodÃÂÃÂwe hear a clear message from BMW: Diesels are here to stay, hopefully for a long time.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-sti...united-states/

Here is what I know. In 2015, I bought a 2015 740Ld in the USA.

Are you all listening? I can easily get 700 miles per tank. Did you just hear what I said? My 740Ld gets me 700 miles per tank.

The car is a blast to drive.

BMW refuses to make a 2017 7 series diesel for the USA.

This will be the first time I am not buying a new 7 as I am keeping this baby til the wheels fall off.

Not to mention, this car is destined to be a classic and appreciate in value because it's almost one of a kind.

Note to BMW: In my 2013 750Li I would go to the gas station twice per week. Now, I go thrice per month.

The low end torque is fun! Every gear has its place. This baby just wants to go even at speed. Plus, it's so unique. I have yet to see a loaded 740 diesel on the road. I see 750 and 740 petrols all the time.

It's by far the funnest bimmer I ever owned. Driving it each day feels like the first day I got it.

Don't be a weasel: Go Diesel!

bailyhill · 02-08-2017, 07:00 AM

Hello BMWrules7 and all;

+1 to your post on the 740Ld. I can only imagine.

I have a 2016 X3 28d, which is not in the same league with either the 335D or the 740D. I can say that it's easily my favorite BMW. Owned 7 of them now. It purrs like a kitten down the hiway. In the US, I get 44 mpg on cruise/eccopro/62 mph. That is about twice what most SUV's get. It has lots of torque (295 ft lbs) and its a bit lighter than the X5. I get 600 to 700 miles on a tank. I can go from Boston to Southern Maryland to visit family without filling up. Of course the bio and my wife have something to say about that.

I have it on lease, but right now, if an equivalent X3 diesel is not available in two years, I am keeping this baby. My wife and I have the X3D for long trips and we have an i3 for the short ones. We are retired, and so do not have to contend with the daily commute. My commute is about 10 feet these days, from the bed to the bathroom or to my study or shop.

Thank you BMW for making these amazing cars available. Seems like the ideal combination would be a PHEV for the short trips and a diesel for the long ones--all in a single car. If you make that car, I will buy it. In this case the PHEV is not to boost the torque at low speed, but to take the short trips away from the diesel, making it more reliable and a better emissions situation.

Clear Skies
Bailyhill

PabloK · 02-10-2017, 06:16 PM

love my 328d wagon... 45mpg all day

nice relaxing car to drive

also sounds like my Kubota tractor lol

Uber Commuter · 02-19-2017, 06:10 PM

Hey all;

I just purchased a CPO '14 328xD sedan myself; moved over to BMW from VW thanks to the diesel settlement. Love this car so far; still getting about 40 mpg; but with a better drive, more comfort, more luxury, etc.

02-07-2017, 02:11 PM	#25
Flying Ace Lieutenant General 5046 Rep 11,904 Posts Drives: G05 45e, 997.1 & 991.1 GT3s Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: SF, CA iTrader: (5)	current BMW diesel owner here...I can say, my current diesel will be the last diesel I will ever own for many reasons both controllable and uncontrollable by BMW: 1. my use of the X5 has changed since purchasing. It is now a short distance urban car, so the style of driving is in line with what a PHEV does best. My intown mpgs are like 15 with all the stop and go and hills in SF. 2. the diesel emissions equipment continues to fail. The car's been in the shop for some diesel emissions equipment replacement at least 6 times since 2012. If BMW is willing to warranty the parts for 10-years, then I may reconsider. I'm likely going to replace my E70 with a X5 40e, Cayenne SEH or a XC90 T8 __________________ 22 Phytonic/Coffee X5 45e (CoVID-free) 08 Speed Yellow 911 GT3 Sharkwerks 12 AW/Cinnamon X5d Sports Pkg (retired) 14 AW/Beige M6GC ZCP, MPE, V2 steering wheel, vorsteiner (retired) 08 SSII/Black E90 M3 (retired)
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02-07-2017, 05:34 PM	#31
vadimo Major 316 Rep 1,353 Posts Drives: 2014 F30 320D X-Drive Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Surrey UK iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 M340i [0.00]	you have one important part to this technology; diesel particulate filter (or DPF) designed to remove diesel particulate matter or soot from the exhaust gas of a diesel engine - it traps this crap and when you are doing high speed journey it begins to burn it.... called regeneration. i believe every few years diesel advance, my understanding is that with F30 is much improved and BMW tweak it every year they release facelift/lci version, i been told that latest F30 DPF can now regenerate during town trips. Also it is serviced same as petrol now at same intervals. but here in UK and EU concerns are growing that it is poses serious health risks by outputting nitrogen oxide (NOx) and DPF doesn't capture all this crap. but with many countries have diesel cars make up over 50% of vehicles on roads and from what i see people are still buying them! It is also unclear when some countries state that they will start to clamp down on diesel cars, do they mean older models pre 2000s or all age? Heavy goods vehicles such as busses and lorries? Is my 2014 320D really that hazardous? If we all abandon diesel cars what is alternative? Limited choice of battery powered cars and unprepared charging infrastructure? Is it right to say that petrol is better because it is polluting with different kind of toxins, carbon monoxide CO2? Too many variables and inconclusive information to make an informative choice __________________ Current Ride: 2020 G20 M340i in Metallic Black Sapphire with Individual Full Merino Ivory White and Piano Black Trim Previous Ride1: 2014 F30 M Sport 320D X-Drive Auto, Dakota Beige Leather, M Sport Brakes, Adaptive M Suspension, Paddle Shifters, 19" 403 Alloys, Folding Mirrors, Pro Sat Nav & Harman Kardon Surround Sound. Previous Ride2: 2004 E46 M Sport 320CI Auto, Montana Beige Leather & 18" 135M Alloys.
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02-07-2017, 05:49 PM	#32
jpnh Brigadier General 1430 Rep 3,395 Posts Drives: NA Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	The focus on the so called health risks of diesel are hyper focused on while the highly carcinogenic small diameter emmissions from gasoline engines that embed themselves deep in lung tissue and are nearly impossible for the body to expel is totally ignored
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02-08-2017, 07:00 AM	#34
bailyhill Private First Class 70 Rep 168 Posts Drives: '20 X3 30e Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: NorthEast iTrader: (0)	BMWrules7 Hello BMWrules7 and all; +1 to your post on the 740Ld. I can only imagine. I have a 2016 X3 28d, which is not in the same league with either the 335D or the 740D. I can say that it's easily my favorite BMW. Owned 7 of them now. It purrs like a kitten down the hiway. In the US, I get 44 mpg on cruise/eccopro/62 mph. That is about twice what most SUV's get. It has lots of torque (295 ft lbs) and its a bit lighter than the X5. I get 600 to 700 miles on a tank. I can go from Boston to Southern Maryland to visit family without filling up. Of course the bio and my wife have something to say about that. I have it on lease, but right now, if an equivalent X3 diesel is not available in two years, I am keeping this baby. My wife and I have the X3D for long trips and we have an i3 for the short ones. We are retired, and so do not have to contend with the daily commute. My commute is about 10 feet these days, from the bed to the bathroom or to my study or shop. Thank you BMW for making these amazing cars available. Seems like the ideal combination would be a PHEV for the short trips and a diesel for the long ones--all in a single car. If you make that car, I will buy it. In this case the PHEV is not to boost the torque at low speed, but to take the short trips away from the diesel, making it more reliable and a better emissions situation. Clear Skies Bailyhill __________________ Current: "17 i3 REX; X3 30e History: '67 911S, '72 MB 280 SE 4.5; '74 2002, E21 ('78 320i, E28 ('85 535i) , E36 ('90 325i), 6 Volvos; '14 ForTwo eDrive; '15 i3 REX, F31--'15 328 D Sportwagen; F25 LCI '16 X3 D
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02-10-2017, 06:16 PM	#35
PabloK Lieutenant Colonel 614 Rep 1,805 Posts Drives: F30 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Orono iTrader: (1)	love my 328d wagon... 45mpg all day nice relaxing car to drive also sounds like my Kubota tractor lol __________________ 2014 F30 335i / 2014 F31 328d / 2014 F22 m235i 2019 G05 5.0 / 2012 E70 X5 50i / 2007 X5 3.0is 2011 e93 M3 / 2009 E60 M5 / 2004 E46 M3 2017 Alpina B6 22 Ram Trx / 22 M5 CS
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02-19-2017, 06:10 PM	#36
Uber Commuter Lieutenant 717 Rep 474 Posts Drives: 2014 328D xDrive Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW 328d xDrive [0.00]	Hey all; I just purchased a CPO '14 328xD sedan myself; moved over to BMW from VW thanks to the diesel settlement. Love this car so far; still getting about 40 mpg; but with a better drive, more comfort, more luxury, etc.
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