[Cdutch513]

So today I replaced my pads and rotors with Akebono pads and Zimmerman rotors. Also sucked out the old fluid and put in new fluid. Tried to do the bleed with my buddy's scanner. Didn't seem to work at all so we did it the old fashion way. Pump pump hold bleed continue. My brakes feel squishy now. They brake ok, but nothing like stock pads and rotors. Also if I stop completely I can push the pedal to the floor. Super weird. Did I do something wrong?

[refugeeofwar]

If you can put the pedal to the floor, it sounds like either you have a leak or you didn't get the air out. Check your whole system and try bleeding the brakes a couple times with a small drive in between.

[bushwa]

Could be air in system, or, worse case senario, the action of bleeding brakes by pumping the pedal all the way to the floor may have messed up seals in the master cylinder. Over years of use, the pedal never sees full travel leaving portion of the piston unused, then you bleed them, pumping it through full stroke, and corrosion on the piston can ruin the seals in the master. Happened to me on an old MK1 VW rabbit years ago, now I always put a block of wood under the brake pedal when bleeding this way. Hope you just need to get air out.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by bushwa

Could be air in system, or, worse case senario, the action of bleeding brakes by pumping the pedal all the way to the floor may have messed up seals in the master cylinder. Over years of use, the pedal never sees full travel leaving portion of the piston unused, then you bleed them, pumping it through full stroke, and corrosion on the piston can ruin the seals in the master. Happened to me on an old MK1 VW rabbit years ago, now I always put a block of wood under the brake pedal when bleeding this way. Hope you just need to get air out.

I didn't have any problems before the pad and rotor change. And we did the bleeding procedure like 8 times. I think I fucked it up. Fuck

[juld0zer]

The INPA/scanner bleed is not designed for this purpose.
You tried to take the lazy way out but the INPA bleed is only for use with a pressure bleeder.

Whenever you fit new pads and discs, they need to be bedded in. After you have pushed back all the pistons, you need to push the pedal several times to take up the gap between the pads and discs. If you sucked out all the fluid before you pressed the pedal then you may have introduced air. If at a stop you can sink the pedal to the floor with constant steady pressure then I'd say you have air in the system.

You will need a pressure bleeder and the scanner or INPA to bleed the ABS module out. First step is to pressure bleed approx 200mL fluid from RR, RL, FR, FL calipers. Do not disconnect or depressurise the bleeder bottle. Then hook up INPA or a scanner and a charger and actuate the valves in the same sequence. After the pump sound stops, fully press the brake pedal 5 times then close the nipple.

So do not disconnect ot deflate the bleeder bottle until you have done the ABS bleed.

Also keep in mind aftermarket pads, particularly Akebono ceramics dont have very good pedal feel

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

The INPA/scanner bleed is not designed for this purpose.
You tried to take the lazy way out but the INPA bleed is only for use with a pressure bleeder.

Whenever you fit new pads and discs, they need to be bedded in. After you have pushed back all the pistons, you need to push the pedal several times to take up the gap between the pads and discs. If you sucked out all the fluid before you pressed the pedal then you may have introduced air. If at a stop you can sink the pedal to the floor with constant steady pressure then I'd say you have air in the system.

You will need a pressure bleeder and the scanner or INPA to bleed the ABS module out. First step is to pressure bleed approx 200mL fluid from RR, RL, FR, FL calipers. Do not disconnect or depressurise the bleeder bottle. Then hook up INPA or a scanner and a charger and actuate the valves in the same sequence. After the pump sound stops, fully press the brake pedal 5 times then close the nipple.

So do not disconnect ot deflate the bleeder bottle until you have done the ABS bleed.

Also keep in mind aftermarket pads, particularly Akebono ceramics dont have very good pedal feel

I was wondering why it said 2bar max..... not listening to mechanic friend anymore.. so why wouldn't the normal bleeding procedure cure the problem? I have been driving with it like this and will until next weekend, until I can work on it again. Is that bad? I can still brake safely. We did abs checks and it works properly. 60-0 very quickly. Did not lock up.

[juld0zer]

The scanner bleed does not operate the pump to generate pressure nor does it operate the ABS pump to pump fluid out of the system. It simply jiggles the valves rapidly while the system is under pressure from the pressure bleeder. Fluid passes constantly through the valve block so the fluid carries away the bubbles that are dislodged.

The two man method doesn't fix your situation because it doesn't tickle the valves. Sometimes or eventually it may fix it but you're better off borrowing a pressure bleeder to promptly sort it out. 2 bar max means do not pressurise the system above 2 bar. I usually use 20-30psi but 20 is plenty strong to do even the rears.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

The scanner bleed does not operate the pump to generate pressure nor does it operate the ABS pump to pump fluid out of the system. It simply jiggles the valves rapidly while the system is under pressure from the pressure bleeder. Fluid passes constantly through the valve block so the fluid carries away the bubbles that are dislodged.

The two man method doesn't fix your situation because it doesn't tickle the valves. Sometimes or eventually it may fix it but you're better off borrowing a pressure bleeder to promptly sort it out. 2 bar max means do not pressurise the system above 2 bar. I usually use 20-30psi but 20 is plenty strong to do even the rears.

I just ordered a pressure bleeder.
So at this point I need to use the INPA bleed? How did I induce that? By doing it without a pressure bleeder?

[Volasko]

I did the same brake job you did a year ago and never activated the ABS pump. Been complaining of the mushy brakes too, very curious to see how this plays out.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by Volasko

I did the same brake job you did a year ago and never activated the ABS pump. Been complaining of the mushy brakes too, very curious to see how this plays out.

Well someone else replied that the akebono pads don't have good feel but mine will sink to the floor with a good amount of pressure. With my stock setup it never did that.

[montr]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

Well someone else replied that the akebono pads don't have good feel but mine will sink to the floor with a good amount of pressure. With my stock setup it never did that.

I have the Zimmerman rotor and Akebono pads all around. I did not experience a mushy pedal feel. They feel similar to OEM.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by montr

I have the Zimmerman rotor and Akebono pads all around. I did not experience a mushy pedal feel. They feel similar to OEM.

Good to know. That's what I wanted

[Volasko]

This friday I'm getting a shop to re-bleed the brakes and ensure the ABS pump is activated while they use a pressure bleeder. I will follow up with my findings.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by Volasko

This friday I'm getting a shop to re-bleed the brakes and ensure the ABS pump is activated while they use a pressure bleeder. I will follow up with my findings.

Just to let you know, if using a pressure bleeder you don't have to activate the pump.

I was able to get it done by gently tapping the ABS block with the handle of a mallet during the bleeding process.

[juld0zer]

just a further addition to the tips here, I recently swapped master cylinders (again..) and the donor was completely empty as it had been sitting on the shelf for over half a year.

It really doesn't take long to get all the air out with a pressure bleeder but you really have to use a clear hose to tell. I only used about 600mL of fluid to get all the air out and then another 500 or so to do the scanner bleed. I haven't needed to use the tapping method yet but next time i deal with a car where i dont have a scanner for i will give it a shot

[mweisdorfer]

The Bentley Repair Manual says you need two people to do the job manually.

You'll need probably about 2 bottles of Dot 4.

Start with the passenger rear, driver's rear, passenger front, driver front.

You probably could use new bleeder screws. They do corrode over time.

You say "opening" - Open the bleeder screw have the driver pump simultaneously the breaks 8-10 times and hold it down to the floor. When the driver says "hold", as they are holding the pedal down to the floor, you wait maybe 2 seconds and close the bleeder screw. Do this 3 times per caliper.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

The Bentley Repair Manual says you need two people to do the job manually.

You'll need probably about 2 bottles of Dot 4.

Start with the passenger rear, driver's rear, passenger front, driver front.

You probably could use new bleeder screws. They do corrode over time.

You say "opening" - Open the bleeder screw have the driver pump simultaneously the breaks 8-10 times and hold it down to the floor. When the driver says "hold", as they are holding the pedal down to the floor, you wait maybe 2 seconds and close the bleeder screw. Do this 3 times per caliper.

With a pressure bleeder you only need one person.

[Volasko]

Originally Posted by Volasko

This friday I'm getting a shop to re-bleed the brakes and ensure the ABS pump is activated while they use a pressure bleeder. I will follow up with my findings.

Follow Up: Shop did a full pressure bleed flush while activating the ABS module. While he was in there I had him bleed my clutch. I did not notice any improvement with the brake flush with regards to pedal "squishyness". I'm starting to think it has to do with the Akembono pads more than anything.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

With a pressure bleeder you only need one person.

A buddy of mine did his brakes with a pressure bleeder and he still had to bleed them a couple times.

FYI is all