[mrvuml]

My 18 y/o son has a 2000 VW Jetta with 95K miles. He hit something in the road on Saturday night that cracked the (Aluminum) oil sump pan and so he lost all the oil, ignored the oil pressure warning light, kept driving and the engine seized a few minutes later. (Yes, I know he shouldn't have kept driving and I've ripped him a new one but the damage is done so lets not get into how long he should be grounded, how he should be made to pay for it, that he doesn't deserve to have a car, etc.) Anyhow, got it towed to a local imports repair shop today who say it will need a replacement engine and that this would be less expensive than a rebuild. What I would like to try and find out, from those of you here that have worked on stripping down and rebuilding engines is....what is the likely extent of the internal damage to the engine and what would be involved in a repair? The father of one of my son's friends might be up for doing this but I would like to know what he would be up against, how long it might take, what parts would be needed, etc. Or, is it really best to replace the engine with a used one? If so, what might that cost? Thanks in advance for your advice.

P.S. It is the 2.0 liter 4-cyl. Non-Turbo engine.

[TurboFan]

Uhhh.... it's a bitch of a repair. Here's a 30,000 ft view...

The pistons in one or more cylinders have basically friction-welded themselves to the cylinder liner. It got so hot the litteraly melted together.

First you have to get the pistons out of the cylinder. This assumes that other damage was not done to the block. I'm not familiar with this particular engine, but the heat may have done other damage.

When you get the pistons out, the block may be shot. If not you'll likely need to replace the cylinder liners or have them re-ground and order larger, non-standard pistons. Your son can get his engine bored for the troubles. You'll also likely need a new crank, con rods, crank bearings, etc. It's a total bottom end rebuild of the engine.

You'd be better off looking for a junked one, or even a crate engine and doing the swap. Hell of a lot easier. In the end, probably wouldn't cost much more, if any more, and you'd have something you know would run.

[mrvuml]

Thanks. What is really annoying about this is this is the second time this kind of thing has happened. Back in January he hit one of those small round metal utility hole covers that had popped out into the road. He didn't see it until it was too late to avoid. It cracked the oil pan and lost oil. Luckily the engine didn't seize. Repair cost $500. Both tow truck driver and repair shop owner said this is a common problem with VW Jettas because they are low to the ground and use an Aluminum oil pan that is easily broken (curbs, speed bumps, ice, rocks, etc.) so they are always replacing them and, in some cases, dealing with a seized engine due to the sudden loss of all the oil. Of course, it doesn't help that the driver, my son, didn't stop the engine immediately!!!!!

Even the day after, the engine absolutely refused to turn over. All you could hear was the starter motor solenoid clicking. As much as hate to admit it (he is my son and I love him) the car was driven for probably about a half-mile or a mile with little or no oil. By the time he called me for help it was too late, the engine had quit and wouldn't restart. It wouldn't even turn over.

[batchelorc]

Kinda off topic, but interesting none the less... Back in college I had a 1998 Honda Civic. Took it in for regular maintenance. When I picked it up I started driving off and noticed the oil light was on. I immediately took it back to the dealer to see what was going on. After about 10 minutes back in the shop I'm told the tech forgot to put oil back in after he drained it! WTF! Sorry, your story just made me think of that and I had to vent

[darkcloud]

Sucks. I had a 1990 Jeep Wrangler 6cyl as my first car. Got it with around 105,000 on the clock. At 140k cylinders 5 and 6 seized as I was about to get off the highway. I beat this car up off roading and stuff and during normal driving the engine dies, go figure haha. Anyways my Dad decided to get a replacement engine. I being 19 at the time tried fighting the decision but he wouldn't hear it. He kept saying I've already spend a couple thousand on repairs after this the car will be great blah blah blah. Well the car was nothing but constant issues after the engine replacement. I was left stranded 3-4 times cuz of various reasons that the mechanic wouldn't have found w/o driving the car for long periods of time. A year after fixing the car and being in and out of the shop chasing around engine bugs to make the car run soundly, I sold it. I laugh at my dad now. With paying for the car $4500, about 3k in random repairs, and then the 3k engine plus it was a Jeep so I bought various upgrades prolly totaling 2-3k. All that money spent and he could have bought me a new 99 Wrangler when I got my license haha.

So from experience of fixing an engine on a used car, DON'T DO IT. Your son will want to drop that car soon anyways. Make him pay half or whatever towards a new car. You'll both be happy and you won't have the headache of dealing with a replacement engine. He'll also gain the understanding of having to pay for his own car, it taught me wonders of balancing my funds. I was able to jump from my 2nd car to a BMW w/o any help from my dad, he was very proud the day his son was able to walk out of a BMW dealership obtaining financing w/o his help.

[mrvuml]

Repair shop is quoting $4-5K for replacement engine with unknown or $90-100K miles (depending on price) and 30 day guarantee (parts only). If the replacement engine goes bad within the guarantee period we would be looking at another $2K in labor to replace it. After 30 days we would be looking at another new engine.

We're looking at various options, including contacting our insurance company to see if we're covered as the car hit something in the road and caused engine damage rather than body damage. If its covered I suppose the insurance company may total the car as its only worth about $5K. The increased premium will likely be much less than us paying $4-5K for a new engine and being worried about it failing.

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by mrvuml

Repair shop is quoting $4-5K for replacement engine with unknown or $90-100K miles (depending on price) and 30 day guarantee (parts only). If the replacement engine goes bad within the guarantee period we would be looking at another $2K in labor to replace it. After 30 days we would be looking at another new engine.

We're looking at various options, including contacting our insurance company to see if we're covered as the car hit something in the road and caused engine damage rather than body damage. If its covered I suppose the insurance company may total the car as its only worth about $5K. The increased premium will likely be much less than us paying $4-5K for a new engine and being worried about it failing.

I don't think I'd drop 4-5k into a car that's only worth that much. You can probably sell it for $500 - $1000, take that money plus whatever you were going to pay for repairs and put it into a used camry, civic, accord. etc.

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

I don't think I'd drop 4-5k into a car that's only worth that much. You can probably sell it for $500 - $1000, take that money plus whatever you were going to pay for repairs and put it into a used camry, civic, accord. etc.

Agreed. Did you not read my story of my old car? Cut your losses while there minimal. Dropping money into that car would be foolish. Sell if for parts, take the repair money and buy another used car or like I mentioned use if as a downpayment on a new or newer used car and make you son pay half the payment or whatever you want him to pay.

Maybe he won't trash his car so frequently if he was spending his own money, I know I would have taken better care of my car at his age if that were the case.

[mrvuml]

Looks like we're covered by insurance and they'll most likely total the car as the repair quotes are coming in at close to the car's value. FMV will probably cover the outstanding loan payoff but we'll be out the initial downpayment, tax, etc. since buying it 18 months ago. Knowing insurance companies they'll probably then hike the rate a lot or drop him.

[skierman64]

I'm surprised the tree huggers in Boulder aren't outside your house protesting the oil contamination and damage to the environment caused by the two oil draining incidents

[rambino]

Buy another used car on Ebay or Autotrader. You can get the same car with lower miles for even less money.. it just takes a bit of searching, but there are plenty of low mileage used vehicles you could get into. The Chevorlet Sunfire and Cavalier for one go for around 2-3k and ive seen them with as low as 25k miles.. in the end ull get a lot more luife out of the car and they are damn easy to fix

[UncleWede]

I'd fight with insurance, it's not like he hit another car, road hazards should not include a fault assignment.

Of course, he who holds the gold makes the rules. . .

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by mrvuml

Thanks. What is really annoying about this is this is the second time this kind of thing has happened. Back in January he hit one of those small round metal utility hole covers that had popped out into the road. He didn't see it until it was too late to avoid. It cracked the oil pan and lost oil. Luckily the engine didn't seize.

You sure it's a teenage son and not a teenage daughter?

That is a lot of stuff going wrong. IMO, replacing a car like that would be much better than replacing the engine (unless you were looking to do a swap anyway). If this has happened twice now with this car and it sounds like it might happen again lets learn from the mistake and not make it again...

[mrvuml]

It looks like we'll probably go the insurance route. We're waiting for them to inspect it and come up with repair decision or a FMV offer before we make a final decision. If its a repair we'll probably trade it in on an SUV as soon as its fixed.

Local repair shop (with great reputation) is quoting $4-5K for replacement engine, VW dealer is quoting $6-7K. If they don't total the car I'm sure the insurance company will get someone to bid it at ~$3K and we'll probably get an engine that has an unknown pedigree and a near worthless guarantee. If that is what they do then as long as it works long enough to trade it in we'll be "happy" as I would be concerned about it happening again or the replacement engine going bad.

Reasearch shows that rants about this problem are rampant across the internet. Masses of complaints from people having to pay $4K+ for new engines. WTF were VW thinking when they used an Aluminum sump cover that is 3 inches from the ground and is so easily damaged. The plastic underbody trim offers very little protection.