[NightRyda]

I just had the accessory/serpentine belt on my 2007 335i E90 (60k miles) shred. The belt was torn into tiny pieces and the engine had fragments/fluff from the belt fibers thrown all over the engine compartment.

The pulley on my power steering pump had a huge chunk broken off and shredded the belt. Looks like I had the well known issue where the subframe hit the PS pulley.

I have some questions and was hoping someone can help...

How do I remove the PS pulley?

I'm trying to replace the power steering pulley, but can't get the pulley off. The air duct, left air charge pipe, and fan is already off. Since the belt was shred, there's no tension on the pulley and it just spins freely when I try and loosen the 3 bolts on the pulley that bolt it onto the PS pump.

How do I stop the PS pulley from spinning so I can get the bolts off and remove it? The center of the pulley just has a hole, but doesn't look I can insert anything in there to hold it still so I can loosen the bolts.

How do I know if the belt got inside the engine?

I've read that belt fragments can get sucked into the motor via the crank seal. I was able to rotate the crank pulley freely with a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt.

I looked at my crank pulley and didn't see any of the belt wrapped around it, but the small gap between the crank pulley and engine block (where the crank seal would be) is so tiny that it's impossible to see inside and be sure that none of the belt found it's way inside there.

So how can I be sure none of the belt got into the motor? Do i just drain the oil? What if the fragments aren't tiny enough to drain out? Is the only way to be sure by dropping the entire oil pan?

How do I notch the subframe?

I can't afford the crazy price BMW charges to replace the subframe, so it appears my only choice is to go the route where you notch the subframe and replace a motor mount.

I couldn't find any pics/details/DIY's for how the subframe should be notched, or how much to actually take off.

There seems to already be about a couple of inches of space between the subframe the PS pulley so it's hard to know exactly how much to take off or how to notch it... Anyone done this and have pics, or can explain how its done?

There some extra weld material that i figured I could grind down if I can get a grinder in there, but I don't know if that's what you're supposed to do or if you're actually supposed to cut a chunk out (doesn't that weaken the subframe)?

Also, which motor mount do I change and what's the part # for the replacement?

I need to get my running again ASAP and I'm stuck right now. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

[Bavarian Tech]

Was/Is your oil filter housing leaking ? Far as getting the power steering pulley off, its just
stuck on the pump shaft..Just needs to be pried off. I would pull the crank pulley off and inspect the seal. I've seen the belt get sucked into the oil pan/pump.

I personally wouldn't go grinding the subframe, per BMW's SIB your suppose to replace the subframe, mounts, and support arms. But I think 335is motor mounts would help your situation

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by NightRyda

I just had the accessory/serpentine belt on my 2007 335i E90 (60k miles) shred. The belt was torn into tiny pieces and the engine had fragments/fluff from the belt fibers thrown all over the engine compartment.

The pulley on my power steering pump had a huge chunk broken off and shredded the belt. Looks like I had the well known issue where the subframe hit the PS pulley.

I have some questions and was hoping someone can help...

How do I remove the PS pulley?

I'm trying to replace the power steering pulley, but can't get the pulley off. The air duct, left air charge pipe, and fan is already off. Since the belt was shred, there's no tension on the pulley and it just spins freely when I try and loosen the 3 bolts on the pulley that bolt it onto the PS pump.

How do I stop the PS pulley from spinning so I can get the bolts off and remove it? The center of the pulley just has a hole, but doesn't look I can insert anything in there to hold it still so I can loosen the bolts.

How do I know if the belt got inside the engine?

I've read that belt fragments can get sucked into the motor via the crank seal. I was able to rotate the crank pulley freely with a breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt.

I looked at my crank pulley and didn't see any of the belt wrapped around it, but the small gap between the crank pulley and engine block (where the crank seal would be) is so tiny that it's impossible to see inside and be sure that none of the belt found it's way inside there.

So how can I be sure none of the belt got into the motor? Do i just drain the oil? What if the fragments aren't tiny enough to drain out? Is the only way to be sure by dropping the entire oil pan?

How do I notch the subframe?

I can't afford the crazy price BMW charges to replace the subframe, so it appears my only choice is to go the route where you notch the subframe and replace a motor mount.

I couldn't find any pics/details/DIY's for how the subframe should be notched, or how much to actually take off.

There seems to already be about a couple of inches of space between the subframe the PS pulley so it's hard to know exactly how much to take off or how to notch it... Anyone done this and have pics, or can explain how its done?

There some extra weld material that i figured I could grind down if I can get a grinder in there, but I don't know if that's what you're supposed to do or if you're actually supposed to cut a chunk out (doesn't that weaken the subframe)?

Also, which motor mount do I change and what's the part # for the replacement?

I need to get my running again ASAP and I'm stuck right now. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

I'd probably take the power steering pump off the car and press the pulley off with pullers.

335is motor mounts would be a better bet than trying to alter your subframe.

Check for any oil leaks that may have put oil on the belt causing it to dislodge from its track.

You'll probably have to lower the subframe to take the power steering pump out, as it is attached to the oil pan.

If the belt got sucked into the crank, your basically screwed, but trust me you'll know if it did. Just check for parts of belt around the crank seal. If no belt parts are present, you've dodged a bullet.

[NightRyda]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Tech

Was/Is your oil filter housing leaking ? Far as getting the power steering pulley off, its just
stuck on the pump shaft..Just needs to be pried off. I would pull the crank pulley off and inspect the seal. I've seen the belt get sucked into the oil pan/pump.

I personally wouldn't go grinding the subframe, per BMW's SIB your suppose to replace the subframe, mounts, and support arms. But I think 335is motor mounts would help your situation

Thanks for the reply, yeah my OFHG is leaking which is contaminating the belt. I'll fix it now since the car is apart & maybe even do a walnut blast... But the main culprit was the subframe hitting the PS pulley at some point and breaking a huge chunk off of the pulley.

Don't you have to remove the 3 bolts on the PS pulley before you can pull it off? I don't have a puller to stop the PS pulley from spinning.... Guess I'll just remove the PS pump and take it off in vise... Was trying to avoid loosing PS fluid & having to bleedi.

Also, anyone know what the torque for the 3 PS pulley bolts are?

i'll definitely pull the crank pulley and also replace the crank seal while I'm down there, as well drain the oil and look for belt fragments.

I still need to do something about the subframe or it can all happen again, Taking it to shop for an "updated" subframe is way too expensive and not an option for me.

Anyone have pics or DIY about how much to take off the subframe? I figured I can grind away some of the excess weld in the pic below for a bit more clearance w/o weakening anything.

Anyone already do this? Any advice?

Also, which engine mount is the one that's supposed to be replaced, and what's different about it? What did BMW do to fix the issue on the subframe replacement they use now? Thanks

[NightRyda]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

I'd probably take the power steering pump off the car and press the pulley off with pullers.

335is motor mounts would be a better bet than trying to alter your subframe.

Check for any oil leaks that may have put oil on the belt causing it to dislodge from its track.

You'll probably have to lower the subframe to take the power steering pump out, as it is attached to the oil pan.

If the belt got sucked into the crank, your basically screwed, but trust me you'll know if it did. Just check for parts of belt around the crank seal. If no belt parts are present, you've dodged a bullet.

Thanks, I definitely pull the crank pulley off and check out & replace the crank seal.

It seems like just pulling the whole PS pump and replacing the pulley that way is the best option, just shame to lose the new fluid I put in and then bleeding.

I do have an OFHG leak; will fix that now as well, but that's not why the belt failed. At some point the subframe hit the PS pump and broke a chunk of the PS pulley, and over a few hundred miles the sharp broken edge on the pulley dislodged the belt and shredded it. See the pic above.

So I need to find a way to prevent this from happening again, w/o spending $3k on a new subframe install.

Which exact engine mounts need to be replaced and what's diff about them? Any pics/DIY's/experience w/ notching the subframe? Are the mounts alone a good enough fix? Thanks.

[juld0zer]

Power steering pulley - wrap your new belt around it and use it as a strap wrench or buy a strap wrench. I've counterheld it by hand before. The bolts are not that tight but im not at work at the moment to get the torque spec for you. You could get creative with chunks of wood against the reinforcement bits of the pulley? Or even fit the belt properly, let the tensioner take up the slack and it should hold plenty fine.

If the belt did enter the engine, it is usually accompanied by an oil leak and rough running and abnormal noise.

From memory, the left mount is replaced with the 'is' version which is supposed to be stiffer.

[robthewrench]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Tech

Was/Is your oil filter housing leaking ? Far as getting the power steering pulley off, its just
stuck on the pump shaft..Just needs to be pried off. I would pull the crank pulley off and inspect the seal. I've seen the belt get sucked into the oil pan/pump.

I personally wouldn't go grinding the subframe, per BMW's SIB your suppose to replace the subframe, mounts, and support arms. But I think 335is motor mounts would help your situation

This is good advice. Do not grind the subframe.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by NightRyda

Thanks, I definitely pull the crank pulley off and check out & replace the crank seal.

It seems like just pulling the whole PS pump and replacing the pulley that way is the best option, just shame to lose the new fluid I put in and then bleeding.

I do have an OFHG leak; will fix that now as well, but that's not why the belt failed. At some point the subframe hit the PS pump and broke a chunk of the PS pulley, and over a few hundred miles the sharp broken edge on the pulley dislodged the belt and shredded it. See the pic above.

So I need to find a way to prevent this from happening again, w/o spending $3k on a new subframe install.

Which exact engine mounts need to be replaced and what's diff about them? Any pics/DIY's/experience w/ notching the subframe? Are the mounts alone a good enough fix? Thanks.

You can get a brand new subframe for about $688.00 at ECS tuning. It's not that hard to take the subframe out of the car. All you need is an engine support bar. You can get one for around $125.00


Just search for oil pan gasket diy or Turbo diy's. Both require one to take the subframe out of the car.

[autoart]

I have never done this , but I would think that if you pulley hit the subframe it would leave a mark and that would be where to grind. If you get a new one check to see if its different/ updated. Good luck.

[NightRyda]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

You can get a brand new subframe for about $688.00 at ECS tuning. It's not that hard to take the subframe out of the car. All you need is an engine support bar. You can get one for around $125.00


Just search for oil pan gasket diy or Turbo diy's. Both require one to take the subframe out of the car.

Thanks for the tip. I saw that ECS sells the subframe and took a look at the DIY's mentioned. It still seems like a lot of work to do on the floor in my garage by myself. I might have an indy shop do it, but in all honesty I'm getting fed up of this car.

It seems to have issues every few months. I bought it used w/ 39k miles and cared for it meticulously since then. Irregardless, something breaks every few months and the cost involved is never reasonable. I've done all the repairs myself, but still the price of the parts adds up.

I used to be a ASE master tech 8 yrs ago, and in all that time I've never seen such lousy engineering, poor reliability, and so much plastic under the hood. Plastic and tubro heat don't mix. The model I have didn't even come w/ the oil cooler which is basic for a turbo car.

I really wanted to like this car and kept giving it the benefit of the doubt when things went wrong, but at this point I think I'm going to sell this money pit.

I also have a FI S2000 which is quicker, handles better, and is night and day more reliable; so that should hold me over in terms of driving pleasure for a while.

It's a shame becasue this was my first BMW and will likely be my last.

[NightRyda]

Originally Posted by autoart

I have never done this , but I would think that if you pulley hit the subframe it would leave a mark and that would be where to grind. If you get a new one check to see if its different/ updated. Good luck.

Yes, there is a clear horizontal mark which indicates where to grind, but it's hard to tell how much to grind w/o weakening the subframe while still allowing for adequate clearance.

I know about the SB from BMW and can't believe that BMW NA doesn't cover this since it's clearly a manufacturing defect. Way to stand behind your product BMW!

With each issue (usually every few months) I grow to like this car less and less, and now I'm at point where I think it might be best to get rid of it altogether.

[MrSteak]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

If the belt got sucked into the crank, your basically screwed, but trust me you'll know if it did. Just check for parts of belt around the crank seal. If no belt parts are present, you've dodged a bullet.

What happens if the belt gets sucked into the crank?

Our E90's belt just got shredded while driving, and now there's oil all over the engine/bay and the engine is making weird noises. Our indy shop is trying to diagnose it, and they don't even want to run the car.

[BashShah]

Originally Posted by MrSteak

What happens if the belt gets sucked into the crank?

Our E90's belt just got shredded while driving, and now there's oil all over the engine/bay and the engine is making weird noises. Our indy shop is trying to diagnose it, and they don't even want to run the car.

Don't run the Car....Period.
Take Crank Pulley and seal off, and inspect if belt went into engine, and clear out what you find, and hope for the best.
Good luck.

[Mean E92]

I had this happen to me on my N55 335i. Lot's of belt peices in my pan. 2-3 months after it happened my engine failed. My guess is oil starvation. Even though I cleaned the pick up tube some might have gone past it and into the oil pump. I really suggest you consider to get rid of the car before the engine fails.

[rooks335]

Reviving an old thread, hopefully there are some members with feedback on metal ps pump pulleys.
Changed all the pulleys and tensioner after I had the belt shred problem a year ago but the experience and the more I read abt the issue the more worried I am that the problem will reoccur during spirited driving.

Does anyone have any feedback on the following metal PS pump pulley?


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BMW-E82-...O/323403211070

[juld0zer]

Why not replace the engine mounts first?