[allcaps55]

Hello all,
I'm getting ready to have some index 12 injectors installed at a local Indy dealer after getting some rough cold starts stumbling rpm at idle and gasoline on a few plugs. I have new coils and plugs to put in but I was wondering if I should do them before or after the injector install? I'm not driving the car right now and am getting it towed to the shop but with the injectors leaking I'm not sure if that could ruin the new plugs. Also don't want them to install the injectors only to tell me my spark plugs are fouled and that I have to get it towed back to my house to put the new ones in. Any thoughts?

[type-dRew]

Install them at the same time?

[allcaps55]

Originally Posted by type-dRew

Install them at the same time?

Was trying to save a little bit on labor considering this was already an unplanned $1700 venture and the fact that I can do them in about 20 minutes.

[type-dRew]

Then install them at your house.

I dont understand the problem. I definitely wouldn't install them BEFORE the injectors go in, that doesn't make any sense.

[allcaps55]

Originally Posted by type-dRew

Then install them at your house.

I dont understand the problem. I definitely wouldn't install them BEFORE the injectors go in, that doesn't make any sense.

Maybe my phrasing is just messed up but mainly want to make sure the car could still run even though the current spark plugs have been sitting with fuel on them. I'm planning on replacing them as soon as the injectors are done just not sure if the fuel will foul the plugs or if I should be able to drive it home after the injectors are installed.

[type-dRew]

Originally Posted by allcaps55

Maybe my phrasing is just messed up but mainly want to make sure the car could still run even though the current spark plugs have been sitting with fuel on them. I'm planning on replacing them as soon as the injectors are done just not sure if the fuel will foul the plugs or if I should be able to drive it home after the injectors are installed.

Right. No I get it.

The best time to install them is the same time. You said you want to save money so that means your option is to install them after.

[Bimmer_Engineer]

Have you considered doing it all yourself? If you're comfortable with the plugs and coils then the injectors are not much harder. You'll need a scanner that can code injectors and perhaps a slide hammer (i used one but i've seen others didn't).

[allcaps55]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

Have you considered doing it all yourself? If you're comfortable with the plugs and coils then the injectors are not much harder. You'll need a scanner that can code injectors and perhaps a slide hammer (i used one but i've seen others didn't).

I was definitely debating it. I do all the work on my car but unfortunately I have a Mac without boot camp or anything installed so would not be able to do the coding. Also have heard some horror stories related to torquing the fuel rail feeder lines so figured I'd just bite the bullet on this one install.

[Bimmer_Engineer]

Originally Posted by allcaps55

I was definitely debating it. I do all the work on my car but unfortunately I have a Mac without boot camp or anything installed so would not be able to do the coding. Also have heard some horror stories related to torquing the fuel rail feeder lines so figured I'd just bite the bullet on this one install.

Well if you can overcome your reservations then it's a pretty easy DIY. I don't use INPA (yet), so I bought a foxwell NT520 to code the injectors. I also bought an injector puller from jet.com that I didn't need to use so I ended up returning it. I got the injectors from FCP euro so I can get free replacements if they ever crap out again. I've had the fuel lines off a few times for different reasons...I've never had issues torquing them...just don't wrench them down too hard...

[allcaps55]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

Well if you can overcome your reservations then it's a pretty easy DIY. I don't use INPA (yet), so I bought a foxwell NT520 to code the injectors. I also bought an injector puller from jet.com that I didn't need to use so I ended up returning it. I got the injectors from FCP euro so I can get free replacements if they ever crap out again. I've had the fuel lines off a few times for different reasons...I've never had issues torquing them...just don't wrench them down too hard...

Oh wow I was not aware you could use something outside of the INPA software... looks like I'm more likely to do it myself now. I did get mine through fcp euro so I'm set with the warranty. What was your method for pulling them without the special tool?

[Bimmer_Engineer]

Originally Posted by allcaps55

Oh wow I was not aware you could use something outside of the INPA software... looks like I'm more likely to do it myself now. I did get mine through fcp euro so I'm set with the warranty. What was your method for pulling them without the special tool?

You can hopefully just grip them and pull them out in many cases. The injector puller is only needed if they're stuck in the head from the o-ring swelling or carbon deposits. This is the puller...

https://www.toolfetch.com/sp-tools-1...waAu6pEALw_wcB

Like I said...I ordered one and then I returned it when the job was over because I didn't use it. Be careful when you're pulling them to not wobble them too much. There was a user on here a few months back that wobbled one to get it out rather than use the injector puller and he ovaled the hole in his cylinder head such that the new injector wouldn't seat properly. I think that's a rare occurrence though.

This is the scan tool I used...

http://www.foxwellmall.com/wholesale...-software.html

It was very easy to code the injectors with this. There's a good DIY on this site and there's also good youtube videos about it.

[allcaps55]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

You can hopefully just grip them and pull them out in many cases. The injector puller is only needed if they're stuck in the head from the o-ring swelling or carbon deposits. This is the puller...

https://www.toolfetch.com/sp-tools-1...waAu6pEALw_wcB

Like I said...I ordered one and then I returned it when the job was over because I didn't use it. Be careful when you're pulling them to not wobble them too much. There was a user on here a few months back that wobbled one to get it out rather than use the injector puller and he ovaled the hole in his cylinder head such that the new injector wouldn't seat properly. I think that's a rare occurrence though.

This is the scan tool I used...

http://www.foxwellmall.com/wholesale...-software.html

It was very easy to code the injectors with this. There's a good DIY on this site and there's also good youtube videos about it.

Wow thanks a bunch for all of the info. Guess it's not that difficult just didn't think I had many options for the coding and none of the reputable shops would let me install and just have them code.
I went ahead and ordered the scan tool so looks like I'll be getting this done tonight and coding tomorrow. Thanks for saving me a couple hundred bucks!

[Bimmer_Engineer]

NP...good luck...

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

Well if you can overcome your reservations then it's a pretty easy DIY. I don't use INPA (yet), so I bought a foxwell NT520 to code the injectors. I also bought an injector puller from jet.com that I didn't need to use so I ended up returning it. I got the injectors from FCP euro so I can get free replacements if they ever crap out again. I've had the fuel lines off a few times for different reasons...I've never had issues torquing them...just don't wrench them down too hard...

Tbh you don' want use to use INPA but rather look into ISTA. INPA is so outdated after I've been using ISTA.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by allcaps55

Oh wow I was not aware you could use something outside of the INPA software... looks like I'm more likely to do it myself now. I did get mine through fcp euro so I'm set with the warranty. What was your method for pulling them without the special tool?

I put a set of lock pliers on the threads of the old injector and just wiggled them out. I had to do this with 4 of the 6 index 1 injectors. Yes, index 1 ! They had been in there a while no special tool needed.

Also, there is a video or two on YouTube on how to use the Foxwell/ schwaben scan tool regarding injector coding.

It's a bit tricky trying to figure it out using just the poorly written manual they provide you.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Tbh you don' want use to use INPA but rather look into ISTA. INPA is so outdated after I've been using ISTA.

It is not correct to say that INPA is outdated. INPA and ISTA/D are different packages aimed at different audiences.

INPA is used at the factory, ISTA/D is for dealers, whose service personnel need their hands held a lot more.

There are some things ISTA can do that INPA can't, like suggesting service procedures and showing you pictures of where components are located.

However, ISTA requires a lot more computer resources, is slow to load and very slow to execute many common functions, such as getting a list of error codes.

Once you learn a little about INPA, you appreciate how fast and direct it is, as are it's companion applications, NCSExpert and WinKFP which provide many useful functions that ISTA/D does not. I have both INPA and ISTA/D installed and rarely bother with ISTA.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by dpaul

It is not correct to say that INPA is outdated. INPA and ISTA/D are different packages aimed at different audiences.

INPA is used at the factory, ISTA/D is for dealers, whose service personnel need their hands held a lot more.

There are some things ISTA can do that INPA can't, like suggesting service procedures and showing you pictures of where components are located.

However, ISTA requires a lot more computer resources, is slow to load and very slow to execute many common functions, such as getting a list of error codes.

Once you learn a little about INPA, you appreciate how fast and direct it is, as are it's companion applications, NCSExpert and WinKFP which provide many useful functions that ISTA/D does not. I have both INPA and ISTA/D installed and rarely bother with ISTA.

Which is why IMO INPA sucks. Why would you want a factory level tool for general maintenance. You're not building the car you're fixing it. Now I am excluding NCSExpert from that since AFAIK there is no modern coding software, ISTA-P seems to be more for retrofits and it not really the tool for E9X cars.

ISTA barely requires more resources. Any normal modern laptops runs ISTA. Not sure what is your definition to "a lot more computer ressources".

I agree ISTA-D takes maybe 5 minutes instead of 1 to get my codes but I'll never go back to INPA. Having all your codes explained right in front of you inside ISTA instead of having to then go on google and search them up and their meaning saves the 5 minutes it takes to load compared to INPA quick read.

I haven't encountered a situation yet where I had to use INPA over ISTA.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Which is why IMO INPA sucks. Why would you want a factory level tool for general maintenance. You're not building the car you're fixing it. Now I am excluding NCSExpert from that since AFAIK there is no modern coding software, ISTA-P seems to be more for retrofits and it not really the tool for E9X cars.

ISTA barely requires more resources. Any normal modern laptops runs ISTA. Not sure what is your definition to "a lot more computer ressources".

I agree ISTA-D takes maybe 5 minutes instead of 1 to get my codes but I'll never go back to INPA. Having all your codes explained right in front of you inside ISTA instead of having to then go on google and search them up and their meaning saves the 5 minutes it takes to load compared to INPA quick read.

I haven't encountered a situation yet where I had to use INPA over ISTA.

Different strokes. At this point it should be clear enough for the OP to decide.

In the end of course, it often isn't enough to just get a code. One often has to think about its meaning far beyond the description (which to be clear, INPA also gives, albeit in German).

Any of you who have been disappointed with dealer service will understand what I mean.