[XMetal]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

You CAN teach an old dog new tricks, but the old dog just don't like the new tricks

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

I also have a few 6spd diesel trucks and a 24' enclosed car trailer.....I've been daily driving a Ram diesel with the NV5600 for 16 years now. Love the truck and prefer the 6spd G56 and NV5600 to the 68RFE.....but still didn't want a 6spd in the F type or Z4.

Hang onto the 6-speed Cummins trucks like gold, since Mopar has stopped selling the G56 as an option starting in model year 2019!!!!!

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

i find people who complain about manual in traffic simply are in a rush; or allowing others to bully them on the road. everyones a race car driver when traffic occurs. with the release of google maps....not matter how much you cut up traffic your only going to save 3 mins...

leave a gap allow others to rage and get two cars in front of you only to run into the pile ahead.

but i do have a beater to drive when im just not feeling stick

[wdb]

My wife and I are both of the manual transmission generation, i.e. if you were going to learn to drive you HAD TO learn to drive a manual. From there we took different paths.

These days she can get behind the wheel of our new-to-us E93 6-speed MT and drive it as though she had just pushed a clutch pedal yesterday, which she had not -- probably more like 1,000 yesterdays, and even then due to rare sessions behind the wheel of one of my various toys. She knows how, innately, due to her training. But she doesn't care. It's just something she does to make the thing go so she can get to where she's going.

I on the other hand am just beginning to understand and appreciate just how much I've missed daily driving a manual. I've taken on the E93 as my 3-season daily this year. It's been about 10 years since I daily drove a manual, and about 25 years since I daily drove a manual in an engaging, sporting, driver-focused vehicle.

It's been a bit of a revelation.

Okay, so I learned to drive a clutch. Then I drove a bunch of cars -- and trucks -- that not only had clutches but also DEMANDED that one understand and appreciate how manual transmissions worked, how gears meshed and changed and did their duty. Second gear synchros were perennial failing points, and a fair number of gearboxes had no synchro in first. Double clutching wasn't just cute, it was almost a necessity.

Mind you, I was a gearhead from a very very early age. I steered a 1950 Studebaker while sitting in my dad's lap. I reveled in learning the nuances of easing a TR3 into first on a slow roll. I shifted my 850 Mini with my foot. I shifted my friend's Mini with my foot while he drove! I drove medium duty trucks 50 miles with failed clutch mechanisms; the clutch was essentially permanently engaged, and my job was to get them back to the shop for repair. During the 70's gas crises I hypermiled our Saab 95 wagon with its 4-on-the-tree and its clever little freewheel. So let's just say that, by current standards, I'm not normal.

But life happened, and family happened, and commuting became a major component of daily survival, and a few slushboxes snuck in there. They were a pleasant relief, I won't lie. I still have a very soft spot for our GS350; get in, make it go, get out when you get there, essentially unaffected by the intervening miles. Nice. Pretty darned nice in fact. Then there is the Taco and towing trailers, and let's face it towing with a manual is really just a d**k measuring contest. So I appreciate automatics. I own them and likely always will.

Back to the present, daily driving the E93. Even though it's a manual it's a far, far cry from those TR3 days. Want a gear? Just push the lever into the appropriate location. Even so I find myself becoming much more engaged in the act of operating a motor vehicle. I have to pay attention to the grade of the road when I stop. I have to think ahead when executing a pass (it's a 328, so not exactly a cannon under the right foot). Plus I still double clutch. Pretty much every shift, even upshifts if the gearbox oil is still cold. Call me sensitive.

And I find myself remembering what it was like back then. When driving was a thing in and of itself, and mastery of the machine with which one got places was essential to getting there. Last weekend we traveled 50 miles in each direction on unknown, twisty, windy roads, to get to and from a destination. I found myself becoming one with the machine again. I know that's a cliche, and I do it regularly in my meaner machines; but this was just a day drive, a relaxed and relaxing cruise to get somewhere and back. During the drive I found myself deeply engaged in the simple act of driving. It was because I had to shift the gears. It was a pleasure.

"Save the manual" rings true in my ears, dare I say in my soul. But I sure do see how it might not resonate at all with a lot of folks younger than me, with different experiences than mine. And I plan to spend some quality time with a proper DCT. So there it is.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

i find people who complain about manual in traffic simply are in a rush; or allowing others to bully them on the road.

Plainly you have never had a full bladder in a traffic jam.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by wdb

Plainly you have never had a full bladder in a traffic jam.

oh i got my designated bathroom/snack spot...i drink too much water in the day; so this is a normal occurrence

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I drove my 6-speed diesel pickup longer than 2 hours and less than 5 miles...on the Long Island Expressway...in Sunday evening beach/Hamptons traffic...towing my 24-foot enclosed race car hauler. Not for the faint of heart, with suicidal cars cutting your truck/trailer off. The experience didn't change my mind about driving a manual gearbox. Heck, it actually made the trip nicer, since the truck has a super-low "creeper" first gear where it can crawl along at slower than a walking pace with no throttle input. Perfect "cruise control" for trips through the NYC area!

When I first got the truck in 2008, I thought that the G56 gearbox was tiring to row through the gears in town compared to my car shifters. My opinion changed after a few months, and you will have to pry that shift knob out of my cold, dead, twitching hands.....

More prop to you, once a while is very different than doing it every other day though, in this case I would just have wished for an auto with traffic jam assistance...

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by baege

lots of interesting replies, but not one hits precisely on the question I posed:

anyone go from manual to DCT or another good manumatic, then miss manual, go back to manual to then say "what was I thinking, I should have stayed broken up with manual"?

I started with an automatic as soon as I got my license.

Sporadically drove manual and LOVED it! First chance I got, bought a manual 6 speed g37s couple. Absolutely loved the car! Never wanted to sell it. Slowly had clutch issues, etc... but didn't care, I drove the thing everywhere!

Then sadly traded in the manual for an automatic (X3 now X5). Always missed having the manual. HOWEVER, when I would occasionally switch into my weekend/track car, it would highlight the little "irritations" of having a manual. The things that you don't necessarily care about because hell, you're driving a manual!

For example, occupying both hands and feet, fitting boxes and tons of "stuff" into the backseat and trunk. Living in NYC I realized that I wasn't driving a manual the way it should be driven. Manuals are meant for 2 - N gears not 1 & 2. The X5 allows me to sit in my comfortable bubble and not care about the crater sized potholes, horrible roads or the FDR. Instead I just enjoy a smooth ride with little effort because city driving is a chore, it's not a hobby.

That being said, I wouldn't go back to daily driving a manual. However, I would get a car that's less track focused and has luxuries similar to the X5 but also has a manual. It would be for getting out of the city in nice weather on weekends.

All in all, I think it really just depends on where you live, how often you drive and your motivation for driving.

[10"]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

So the younger guys on here will lean towards the dual clutch, like your daughter goes for the iPad. The older guys that grew up driving three pedals know there isn't a dual clutch auto that can compare to the feel and control of a real manual.

A real photographer knows there is a softness to film that a digital photo simply can not match.

Or the harmonic distortion of tape will always sound richer than a digital recording.

My completely analog 25 year old 993 Porsche that gives away half the hp and half the torque without any electronic aids embarrasses my contemporary M car in just about every way. Faster, nope. But better in every other way.

Honestly the rev match feature on my M makes the car clumsy. The piped in sound is annoying.

I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Well said. There is pleasure in sensation. Some of us understand that the small details and feelings are far more important than technical merit.

[Jbravo33]

Traded in my F83 back in April for a 2018 manual GT3. I test drove it and immediately felt a connection like I had with my E46 M3 some 18 years ago. The DCT was awesome in the M and recently drove a GT3 RS which the PDK makes the dct feel like molasses, but after 30 min I was bored. Call me old school but I enjoy driving the car and not having it drive me. Always engaged 100% even more so at low speeds. Installed a numeric shifter last week and the pleasure I get from driving makes me never want to get rid of this car, ever. It's a keeper. I know pdk and dct's are faster, but in all reality for day to day driving that .5 seconds is meaningless IMO. #manualpreservationsociety

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Hang onto the 6-speed Cummins trucks like gold, since Mopar has stopped selling the G56 as an option starting in model year 2019!!!!!

I'll keep all four of them until they are completely dead. I imagine my 2003 will last a long time yet as I only have about 124,000 miles on it.

I guess I'm not surprised that the 6 spd is going away.....sad. I do get why some prefer the manual - I just don't want one in my sportscar. I find myself on the other side of the fence on the dual sport/ADV motorcycle forums; DCT's are making inroads there too but I don't want one; I've been riding and racing motorcycles for over 40 years and still want my clutch and 5/6 spd tranny's.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer on this issue though I sympathize with the manual lovers for their obvious demise.....but people just aren't buying manuals much: I think Jaguar said 3% of F types for eg. I look at the quality of the ZF, DCT and PDK's as a positive thing - but I'm a "glass half full" kinda guy, I guess.

....as far as old dogs go, I'll be 52 this year.

Dave

[brk_05]

Originally Posted by baege

lots of interesting replies, but not one hits precisely on the question I posed:

anyone go from manual to DCT or another good manumatic, then miss manual, go back to manual to then say "what was I thinking, I should have stayed broken up with manual"?

Based on my experience, no, not like the ex GF. I truly missed it and was glad to be back in a manual. 4 out of the 6 cars I've owned have been manuals. My 3 most recent cars were Audi S4 (manual), Audi S3 (DCT), and my current 340i (manual). Don't get me wrong, the DCT in the S3 was a great transmission. Amazingly quick shifts, held gears nicely in sport mode, predictable, etc. But I really missed a true manual. I rarely found myself using the paddles.

Now that I'm back in a manual, I'm much happier. I find excuses to go somewhere just to drive the car. that rarely happened with the S3, even early in my ownership. I never mind the MT in traffic or hills. I live in Pittsburgh where everything is a hill.

For those that say they lose interest or are annoyed by a MT in a hilly area, I question whether they REALLY know how to drive a 3 pedal vehicle, haha. I learned how to drive on a manual and that was the real test. could you start off on a steep hill without drifting back more than a couple inches, not spinning the tires or burning up the clutch. Once you can do that consistently, congratulations, you can drive a manual.

[baege]

Originally Posted by brk_05

Based on my experience, no, not like the ex GF. I truly missed it and was glad to be back in a manual. 4 out of the 6 cars I've owned have been manuals. My 3 most recent cars were Audi S4 (manual), Audi S3 (DCT), and my current 340i (manual). Don't get me wrong, the DCT in the S3 was a great transmission. Amazingly quick shifts, held gears nicely in sport mode, predictable, etc. But I really missed a true manual. I rarely found myself using the paddles.

Now that I'm back in a manual, I'm much happier. I find excuses to go somewhere just to drive the car. that rarely happened with the S3, even early in my ownership. I never mind the MT in traffic or hills. I live in Pittsburgh where everything is a hill.

For those that say they lose interest or are annoyed by a MT in a hilly area, I question whether they REALLY know how to drive a 3 pedal vehicle, haha. I learned how to drive on a manual and that was the real test. could you start off on a steep hill without drifting back more than a couple inches, not spinning the tires or burning up the clutch. Once you can do that consistently, congratulations, you can drive a manual.

right on point, you went manual to dct back to manual and are happy, my gut says I will follow your path!

[Robotechnology]

I personally am bored while driving an automatic and yes, that includes even heavy traffic situations. I strategically positioned my significant other right after marriage back in 2001 by entrapment:

Bought us a demo 2001 Audi TT 225 Coupe that is only available manual. At the time she LOVED that car’s styling (so did I). So it was fairly easy to hand her the keys and say here’s your new car baby. But, it’s manual she says after the door is opened. I say yes but, it’s a really easy manual to drive (and it really was). I’ll show you. And that was it

Right now she switches between our 2011 Subaru STI and a 2009 Mini John Cooper Works Clubman. She used to drive our 15 F80 as well but is banned from the ‘18 F80 because I know she will destroy the M-Performance lip and curb the 666M wheels

We’ve only owned one automatic in our 20 years together. I bought a CPO Audi Allroad 2.7t Tiptronic the same day I bought an A6 2.7t 6-Spd because... well because it was a great deal—sort of like buy 1 get one 25% off. Well after about a year with it, she comes home and says to me, honey can we get the same car but in manual? Yep, I have a keeper Within 3 months I traded out and paid $6k more for a 6-Spd Allroad that was 1 year newer.