Replace or keep? A case study of a 2007 335i with 140K miles

Drivaar · 03-02-2020, 12:21 AM

Hi everyone! My apologies for the long post… but I’ve got a tricky question, and this may be a helpful case study for others in similar positions.

I have a 2007 E90 335i with about 140,000 miles on it. Important: currently it’s our secondary car, so I only use it for three 12-mile round trips a week… so ~3,000 miles a year conservatively.

Recently a few more major issues are starting to pop up:

Slow engine oil leak that multiple shops have failed to fix completely… not a huge issue but requires a quart to be added every month or two.

Alternator failed and caused part of the main computer to get fried, it seems… the part on the alternator-oil level sensor-water pump circuit. So now the car works but I have no oil level, and the water pump runs at a fixed rate all the time. Which means that in heavy stop-and-go traffic, the oil temp climbs up to 250F because there is no air cooling flow. My well-rated shop says that this repair should be done at the dealer… any opinions on that?

The transmission goes into safe mode intermittently, like once every few trips, especially in stop-and-go traffic. The code seems to be a 6th-to-5th downshift error. The transmission reverts to normal when the car is stopped and restarted

There’s some extra play in the steering now, probably due to very worn bushings that need to be replaced

Aside from these, the car is running great and certainly enough for my ~36 miles of driving per week! It’s brought me a lot of joy over the years but now I don’t push it much at all to avoid more problems.

The big question is: replace or keep?

Here’s how I see the math -- would love your advice!

---

REPLACE

Trade-In Value: Let’s optimistically say $5,000 (KBB says probably $2,400!)
Replacement Car: $10,000 (it still won’t be nearly as nice as what I have now, but I want something that’s not too old so I don’t get sucked into MORE repairs… this includes tax + fees)
Transaction Net $: -$5,000

And then there will be service/repairs required, probably a few thousand each year, plus small depreciation and increased insurance.

---

KEEP

Repairs needed: $3,000 for computer fix (apparently this is a tricky one that only dealers can do, my shop said… ?), $2,000 for transmission fix, $1,000 for bushing replacements
Transaction Net $:-$6,000
And probably a few thousand each year in other repairs… who knows what will break next?
Basically zero depreciation at this point.

But I am left with a loaded 2007 BMW 335i!

---

BOTTOM LINE

I just looked through the used car listings, and they look totally depressing… Makes me lean hard toward just repairing my car and using it lightly.

I guess the most mature thing would be to get a very cheap used car like a Corolla or Accent with ~75,000 miles on it… Our other car is a Hyundai Ioniq Plug-In Hybrid Limited, and it's actually very peppy (torque basically equal to the 335i gear-for-gear due to very aggressive gearing)... electric cars are surprisingly fun, and the Limited trim has an outstanding sound system, quite a bit better than the 2007 335i's upgraded HK system (which has huge gaps in mid-range sound that I never realized).

Curious what you all think! I figure some of you have navigated this same question…

Thank you for your time and thoughts!

e90yyc · 03-02-2020, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drivaar

I guess the most mature thing would be to get a very cheap used car like a Corolla or Accent with ~75,000 miles on it…

No matter how dismal and depressing the situation might seem, that’ll only make things worse. Much, much worse.

Don’t do it!

Moisture · 03-02-2020, 01:15 AM

Where is the oil leak coming from? Unless its a oil pan, it shouldnt cost too much to fix.

temps creeping up to 250F is "normal" for a BMW with the electric water pump. do u have any codes related to the alt failure? i don't see any problems, but again, wouldnt cost 2 grand to fix.

All you need to do with the transmission is drop the pan, replace it, inspect the valve body (rebuild or replace if necessary) and replace whichever shift solenoid is causing the code (6>5) or just replace all of them. Any transmission shop will do.

There's probably more to your suspension causing play, such as control arms/ball joints. Again, unless you're rebuilding your entire front suspension shouldnt cost $1000.

If the rest of the car is in good shape, I'd say its a good bet to keep it.

Just find any good mechanic to take a look at your car. Doesn't need to be BMW specific.

mweisdorfer · 03-02-2020, 06:26 AM

It sounds like you don't DIY much or at all. If you plan on keeping the car either learn how to DIY or find a good/ great mechanic that specializes in European Automotive, who won't charge you an arm & a leg & is HONEST.

If you can't do either, then sell it and take your losses.

mecheng77 · 03-02-2020, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

It sounds like you don't DIY much or at all. If you plan on keeping the car either learn how to DIY or find a good/ great mechanic that specializes in European Automotive, who won't charge you an arm & a leg & is HONEST.

If you can't do either, then sell it and take your losses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

It sounds like you don't DIY much or at all. If you plan on keeping the car either learn how to DIY or find a good/ great mechanic that specializes in European Automotive, who won't charge you an arm & a leg & is HONEST.

If you can't do either, then sell it and take your losses.

Yes check the car over with a Bmw expert, those are some odd issues. If they are accurate issues sell it and get another bmw as those are pricy non diy repairs except for the leak

mweisdorfer · 03-02-2020, 08:35 AM

I don't think a 335 w/ an n54 motor is for the feint at heart. There's no oil leak on an n54 that can't be fixed. The mechanics the car has been taken to are a bunch of quacks.

The OP needs a car with the n52 motor or a Honda Accord. One of the two

Welcome to NBA Jam · 03-02-2020, 08:41 AM

Replacing the DME is something that can be DIY'd with the right software. You can do it with ISTA/P. Personally I'd first try sending it out to a DME repair company and see if they can do all the software cloning or board repairs for you. If a shop is saying a dealer should do it, it's because they probably don't have the right software or have techs with the experience for it.

ricx · 03-02-2020, 09:28 AM

140k isn’t high miles it’s shameful the car has all those problems. Sounds like someone neglected it. The car is fiscally to far gone. You answered your own question, I guess you want affirmation. Cut your losses, and I don’t know who would give 5k for it, no one in their right mind. You probably got more in parts that the car as a whole.

porsche959 · 03-02-2020, 09:42 AM

Is it a 6sp?

Either way, too much of a money pit right now. You can pick up a very clean 335i for the repair costs.

Cyrix2k · 03-02-2020, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

Replacing the DME is something that can be DIY'd with the right software. You can do it with ISTA/P. Personally I'd first try sending it out to a DME repair company and see if they can do all the software cloning or board repairs for you. If a shop is saying a dealer should do it, it's because they probably don't have the right software or have techs with the experience for it.

The DME can't be replaced with a *used* one using ISTA due to anti-theft protections. New DMEs are very expensive, but you can have someone with the appropriate aftermarket interface code a used one for you. On an '07, this is a good time to move to the MSD81 that's used in the later N54s.

tcphoto · 03-02-2020, 12:04 PM

It sounds like it's too far gone and not a good investment to fix. You most likely would be lucky to get $2500 for it, I would move on to a N52.

Bimmer_Engineer · 03-02-2020, 12:07 PM

If my choices were between keeping the 335 or replacing it with a corolla, then I'd keep the 335...

mweisdorfer · 03-02-2020, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

If my choices were between keeping the 335 or replacing it with a corolla, then I'd keep the 335...

In the OP's case, because he doesn't DIY, he's gonna spend probably more money on the car than it's worth just to get the car running and up to par.

freakystyly · 03-02-2020, 12:31 PM

Since it's a car you don't drive enough to even warm up why bother with a turbo'ed I6 you can't enjoy? The corolla would suit that situation better as an occasional commuter, or even better a plugin that you wouldn't need to even gas up.

SlimE92 · 03-02-2020, 02:38 PM

Sell me it and be done with it.

Drivaar · 03-03-2020, 12:14 AM

Thanks everyone for your comments! A few responses:

e90yyc: thank you for the support!

Oil Leak: two well-rated shops have improved it but failed to fix it fully. So I've been on the "monthly top up + scheduled oil change" plan for the last 3 years...

250F Temps: with the oil cooler (which I have installed), the car should run around 220F and get to 240F in the worst stop-and-go (like an hour of inching). 250F is high but I agree, not terrible...

Transmission: thanks Moisture for the tips. The shop I had asked didn't seem to think it was this easy, but I'll ask another shop about this.

Finding a Good Shop: I'd love any recommendations re: good shops/mechanics in the San Francisco East Bay area. I'm not always happy with their work, but I'm not sure what I can do beyond finding the best shops via Yelp + Google. I can't DIY for multiple reasons, though I enjoy fixing other simpler things around the house... so I need to find a good shop or independent mechanic.

Steering Play: Cool, yeah hopefully it's not too bad. I was just being conservative with the estimate. Things ALWAYS end up being more expensive than people on the forums thing... the Bay Area is very very expensive also for labor rates.

DME: Great advice, thanks Cyrix2k and Welcome to NBA Jam (great name!)

Sell or Keep: Part of why I started this thread is because the idea of "it'll cost more to repair it than it's worth" is not the right metric to decide whether to keep a car, even though it's said a lot... Because getting a replacement actually costs quite a bit, and then you have to account for the replacement's depreciation and repairs.

FWIW, I do still get enjoyment from it every time I drive this car, even for short distances.

Thanks again everyone!

fastboatster · 03-03-2020, 01:31 AM

Dont know too many bmw shops in the Bay area since I diyed most of the things on my n51 e90. However, on top of my head I can name 2 shops I went to to fix some stuff on my b8 s4 (don't shame me, that pile is nothing like e90 and a nightmare to work on yourself). So one shop was Nelco German auto in Sunnyvale, while def not the least expensive, Zach is very good at keeping you in the loop and honest. He def works on BMW's. Another shop I've been to is called The Shop in San Bruno, they are less expensive and more generic but not always do things right the first time, but generally will make it right. You can also ask people around in the regional forum.
Definitely try to send out your dme to get fixed. Afaik Vehicular DIY had a video on YouTube how to do it or described how he got his cloned. You also might want to start watching his videos since you got an n54 e90.

TunafishE93 · 03-03-2020, 02:17 AM

I would move on.. You will own many cars, no need to waste your time and money with a trouble maker.. The BMW I have found is for someone that likes to continue to work on cars. So if you want to keep fixing said car than keep but it will be never ending... Or just move on to an Asia car and be happy..

03-02-2020, 12:21 AM	#1
Drivaar Lieutenant 78 Rep 463 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	Replace or keep? A case study of a 2007 335i with 140K miles Hi everyone! My apologies for the long post… but I’ve got a tricky question, and this may be a helpful case study for others in similar positions. I have a 2007 E90 335i with about 140,000 miles on it. Important: currently it’s our secondary car, so I only use it for three 12-mile round trips a week… so ~3,000 miles a year conservatively. Recently a few more major issues are starting to pop up: Slow engine oil leak that multiple shops have failed to fix completely… not a huge issue but requires a quart to be added every month or two. Alternator failed and caused part of the main computer to get fried, it seems… the part on the alternator-oil level sensor-water pump circuit. So now the car works but I have no oil level, and the water pump runs at a fixed rate all the time. Which means that in heavy stop-and-go traffic, the oil temp climbs up to 250F because there is no air cooling flow. My well-rated shop says that this repair should be done at the dealer… any opinions on that? The transmission goes into safe mode intermittently, like once every few trips, especially in stop-and-go traffic. The code seems to be a 6th-to-5th downshift error. The transmission reverts to normal when the car is stopped and restarted There’s some extra play in the steering now, probably due to very worn bushings that need to be replaced Aside from these, the car is running great and certainly enough for my ~36 miles of driving per week! It’s brought me a lot of joy over the years but now I don’t push it much at all to avoid more problems. The big question is: replace or keep? Here’s how I see the math -- would love your advice! --- REPLACE Trade-In Value: Let’s optimistically say $5,000 (KBB says probably $2,400!) Replacement Car: $10,000 (it still won’t be nearly as nice as what I have now, but I want something that’s not too old so I don’t get sucked into MORE repairs… this includes tax + fees) Transaction Net $: -$5,000 And then there will be service/repairs required, probably a few thousand each year, plus small depreciation and increased insurance. --- KEEP Repairs needed: $3,000 for computer fix (apparently this is a tricky one that only dealers can do, my shop said… ?), $2,000 for transmission fix, $1,000 for bushing replacements Transaction Net $:-$6,000 And probably a few thousand each year in other repairs… who knows what will break next? Basically zero depreciation at this point. But I am left with a loaded 2007 BMW 335i! --- BOTTOM LINE I just looked through the used car listings, and they look totally depressing… Makes me lean hard toward just repairing my car and using it lightly. I guess the most mature thing would be to get a very cheap used car like a Corolla or Accent with ~75,000 miles on it… Our other car is a Hyundai Ioniq Plug-In Hybrid Limited, and it's actually very peppy (torque basically equal to the 335i gear-for-gear due to very aggressive gearing)... electric cars are surprisingly fun, and the Limited trim has an outstanding sound system, quite a bit better than the 2007 335i's upgraded HK system (which has huge gaps in mid-range sound that I never realized). Curious what you all think! I figure some of you have navigated this same question… Thank you for your time and thoughts! Last edited by Drivaar; 03-02-2020 at 12:59 AM..
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03-02-2020, 01:15 AM	#3
Moisture Private 27 Rep 87 Posts Drives: 2015 Mazda 6, 2020 Lexus NX300 Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Where is the oil leak coming from? Unless its a oil pan, it shouldnt cost too much to fix. temps creeping up to 250F is "normal" for a BMW with the electric water pump. do u have any codes related to the alt failure? i don't see any problems, but again, wouldnt cost 2 grand to fix. All you need to do with the transmission is drop the pan, replace it, inspect the valve body (rebuild or replace if necessary) and replace whichever shift solenoid is causing the code (6>5) or just replace all of them. Any transmission shop will do. There's probably more to your suspension causing play, such as control arms/ball joints. Again, unless you're rebuilding your entire front suspension shouldnt cost $1000. If the rest of the car is in good shape, I'd say its a good bet to keep it. Just find any good mechanic to take a look at your car. Doesn't need to be BMW specific.
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03-02-2020, 06:26 AM	#4
mweisdorfer Major General 1937 Rep 6,965 Posts Drives: 2007 Black/Black 335i e90 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Holly, MI iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW E90 335i [0.00] 2008 bmw x5 [0.00]	It sounds like you don't DIY much or at all. If you plan on keeping the car either learn how to DIY or find a good/ great mechanic that specializes in European Automotive, who won't charge you an arm & a leg & is HONEST. If you can't do either, then sell it and take your losses.
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03-02-2020, 08:35 AM	#6
mweisdorfer Major General 1937 Rep 6,965 Posts Drives: 2007 Black/Black 335i e90 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Holly, MI iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW E90 335i [0.00] 2008 bmw x5 [0.00]	I don't think a 335 w/ an n54 motor is for the feint at heart. There's no oil leak on an n54 that can't be fixed. The mechanics the car has been taken to are a bunch of quacks. The OP needs a car with the n52 motor or a Honda Accord. One of the two
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03-02-2020, 08:41 AM	#7
Welcome to NBA Jam Is it the shoes!? 3893 Rep 5,111 Posts Drives: (Sold) 2011 E92 335i ZMP 6MT Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	Replacing the DME is something that can be DIY'd with the right software. You can do it with ISTA/P. Personally I'd first try sending it out to a DME repair company and see if they can do all the software cloning or board repairs for you. If a shop is saying a dealer should do it, it's because they probably don't have the right software or have techs with the experience for it.
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03-02-2020, 09:28 AM	#8
ricx Private First Class 29 Rep 134 Posts Drives: e93 Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: SE iTrader: (0)	140k isn’t high miles it’s shameful the car has all those problems. Sounds like someone neglected it. The car is fiscally to far gone. You answered your own question, I guess you want affirmation. Cut your losses, and I don’t know who would give 5k for it, no one in their right mind. You probably got more in parts that the car as a whole.
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03-02-2020, 09:42 AM	#9
porsche959 Banned 473 Rep 996 Posts Drives: porsche Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: chicago iTrader: (0)	Is it a 6sp? Either way, too much of a money pit right now. You can pick up a very clean 335i for the repair costs.
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03-02-2020, 12:04 PM	#11
tcphoto Brigadier General 4205 Rep 3,253 Posts Drives: E92 335i 6MT Coupe Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Nashville, TN iTrader: (1)	It sounds like it's too far gone and not a good investment to fix. You most likely would be lucky to get $2500 for it, I would move on to a N52. __________________
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03-02-2020, 12:07 PM	#12
Bimmer_Engineer Lieutenant Colonel 1049 Rep 1,667 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: May 2018 Location: Louisiana iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 Porsche Boxster [0.00] 2016 Mercedes Benz ... [0.00] 2007 BMW 335i [9.50]	If my choices were between keeping the 335 or replacing it with a corolla, then I'd keep the 335...
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03-02-2020, 12:31 PM	#14
freakystyly Colonel 3623 Rep 2,019 Posts Drives: F22 B58 6MT Join Date: May 2016 Location: Ontario iTrader: (0)	Since it's a car you don't drive enough to even warm up why bother with a turbo'ed I6 you can't enjoy? The corolla would suit that situation better as an occasional commuter, or even better a plugin that you wouldn't need to even gas up.
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03-02-2020, 02:38 PM	#15
SlimE92 Captain 188 Rep 927 Posts Drives: E92 N54 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Queens NY iTrader: (0)	Sell me it and be done with it.
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03-03-2020, 12:14 AM	#16
Drivaar Lieutenant 78 Rep 463 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	Thanks everyone for your comments! A few responses: e90yyc: thank you for the support! Oil Leak: two well-rated shops have improved it but failed to fix it fully. So I've been on the "monthly top up + scheduled oil change" plan for the last 3 years... 250F Temps: with the oil cooler (which I have installed), the car should run around 220F and get to 240F in the worst stop-and-go (like an hour of inching). 250F is high but I agree, not terrible... Transmission: thanks Moisture for the tips. The shop I had asked didn't seem to think it was this easy, but I'll ask another shop about this. Finding a Good Shop: I'd love any recommendations re: good shops/mechanics in the San Francisco East Bay area. I'm not always happy with their work, but I'm not sure what I can do beyond finding the best shops via Yelp + Google. I can't DIY for multiple reasons, though I enjoy fixing other simpler things around the house... so I need to find a good shop or independent mechanic. Steering Play: Cool, yeah hopefully it's not too bad. I was just being conservative with the estimate. Things ALWAYS end up being more expensive than people on the forums thing... the Bay Area is very very expensive also for labor rates. DME: Great advice, thanks Cyrix2k and Welcome to NBA Jam (great name!) Sell or Keep: Part of why I started this thread is because the idea of "it'll cost more to repair it than it's worth" is not the right metric to decide whether to keep a car, even though it's said a lot... Because getting a replacement actually costs quite a bit, and then you have to account for the replacement's depreciation and repairs. FWIW, I do still get enjoyment from it every time I drive this car, even for short distances. Thanks again everyone! Last edited by Drivaar; 03-03-2020 at 12:55 AM..
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03-03-2020, 01:31 AM	#17
fastboatster Captain 428 Rep 961 Posts Drives: 2009 bmw 328i Join Date: May 2019 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Dont know too many bmw shops in the Bay area since I diyed most of the things on my n51 e90. However, on top of my head I can name 2 shops I went to to fix some stuff on my b8 s4 (don't shame me, that pile is nothing like e90 and a nightmare to work on yourself). So one shop was Nelco German auto in Sunnyvale, while def not the least expensive, Zach is very good at keeping you in the loop and honest. He def works on BMW's. Another shop I've been to is called The Shop in San Bruno, they are less expensive and more generic but not always do things right the first time, but generally will make it right. You can also ask people around in the regional forum. Definitely try to send out your dme to get fixed. Afaik Vehicular DIY had a video on YouTube how to do it or described how he got his cloned. You also might want to start watching his videos since you got an n54 e90.
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03-03-2020, 02:17 AM	#18
TunafishE93 Major 424 Rep 1,152 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: NV iTrader: (0)	I would move on.. You will own many cars, no need to waste your time and money with a trouble maker.. The BMW I have found is for someone that likes to continue to work on cars. So if you want to keep fixing said car than keep but it will be never ending... Or just move on to an Asia car and be happy..
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