[lonegun]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Ugh. You're one of those 0-60 above all else type of people. Some of us actually care about how cars drive.

Also GLA45 "rekt" a bunch of sedans. I'm a MB enthusiast and even I know the GLA has to be one of (if not) the worst MB's on sale.

Have you even driven a fast Tesla? I can guaranteed that it will make you hate how slow your cars feel after. But I am talking about track time, which electric cars are seriously taking over.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by lonegun

Have you even driven a fast Tesla? I can guaranteed that it will make you hate how slow your cars feel after. But I am talking about track time, which electric cars are seriously taking over.

I have driven numerous Tesla's, but have you driven any sports cars? Tesla's are great cars for point a to b driving, but not as much driver's satisfaction, especially in the S, X and Y, the 3 is better.

However like I said, I buy cars for their handling and how they feel. I don't care if it can go 0-60 in 2-seconds if it doesn't provide any feedback or engagement. Its a problem I find with not only Tesla but the Taycan (which I've also driven) and the M5 (even ICE vehicles have this issues) which is fast but numb.

I'm not looking for a novocaine racer to launch at stop-lights, I want backroad cruises and track days, which is why I have a Z4 M, I like a naturally aspirated motor that sounds great and revs high in the RPM range, a sweet 6-speed manual gearbox, and communicative hydraulic steering all with the top down. Show me an electric car that can do those things and you will have my money.

As for EV's taking over the tracks, I have yet to see that happen. Maybe you mean the drag strip...

[lonegun]

Originally Posted by jstein55

I have driven numerous Tesla's, great cars for point a to b driving, but not as much driver's satisfaction, especially in the S, X and Y, the 3 is better.

However like I said, I buy cars for their handling and how they feel. I don't care if it can go 0-60 in 2-seconds if it doesn't provide any feedback or engagement. Its a problem I find with not only Tesla but the Taycan (which I've also driven) and the M5 (even ICE vehicles have this issues) which is fast but numb.

I'm not looking for a novocaine racer to launch at stop-lights, I want backroad cruises and track days, which is why I have a Z4 M, I like a naturally aspirated motor that sounds great and revs high in the RPM range, a sweet 6-speed manual gearbox, and communicative hydraulic steering all with the top down. Show me an electric car that can do those things and you will have my money.

As for EV's taking over the tracks, I have yet to see that happen.

Lots of guys and companies are modding Teslas to make them track day ready, but we are not even talking about track day cars as that's a completely different topic all together.

The topic is should people hate performance SUV? I think it's silly to hate a vehicle that can carry people and things fast and efficiently from point A and B. That's what a car is literally designed for! If a person want to carry more things fast like with a RSQ8 to go to point B, it's more power to him! If you want ultimate efficiency in terms of your money to do that job, don't get a RSQ8, get a performance Model Y.

If you want to track day car, get an Atom.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by lonegun

Lots of guys and companies are modding Teslas to make them track day ready, but we are not even talking about track day cars as that's a completely different topic all together.

The topic is should people hate performance SUV? I think it's silly to hate a vehicle that can carry people and things fast and efficiently from point A and B. That's is what a car is literally designed for! If a person want to carry more things fast like with a RSQ8 to go to point B, it's more power to him! If you want ultimate efficiency in terms of your money to do that job, don't get a RSQ8, get a performance Model Y.

If you want to track day car, get an Atom.

Dude you are all over the place. First it was you that brought up a Model Y being faster on track than a 911, then try to say the topic isn't about track days at all, yet it was you who first mentioned it, and now you want to avoid the topic all together when you can get a proper answer out, nice job steering yourself out of that one

[lonegun]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Dude you are all over the place. First it was you that brought up a Model Y being faster on track than a 911, then try to say the topic isn't about track days at all, yet it was you who first mentioned it, and now you want to avoid the topic all together when you can get a proper answer out, nice job steering yourself out of that one

Yea and obviously you stopped reading there LOL. You took one sentence in my post and makes it all about that sentence and somehow I'm the one who keeps bringing up track day? In an essay, it's call a hook, and I guess I hooked you there.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by lonegun

Yea and obviously you stopped reading there LOL. You took one sentence in my post and makes it all about that sentence and somehow I'm the one who keeps bringing up track day? In an essay, it's call a hook, and I guess I hooked you there.

This thread is dead so why not take it off topic into a rant anyways.

And actually, you did make it about track day, I'll explain. I replied to your initial comment in which you mentioned a Model Y vs 911 on track.

Originally Posted by lonegun

GET A MODEL Y PERFORMANCE! It can beat 911 on track

You then replied with another comment with the Model Y vs 911 on track linking top gear after I made a simple joke of having stop reading your post.

Originally Posted by lonegun

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/tuned-tesla-model-y-lapped-track-quicker-997-turbo

Originally Posted by lonegun

Yes, the 911 (2004-2012 Generation) that lap the nurburgring in 7:40.

Germanauto then replied and I changed the topic to not caring about 0-60 times, in which you mentioned the track test despite me then talking about the GLA and preferring handling over 0-60.

Originally Posted by lonegun

Post like relink to Top Gear?

Originally Posted by lonegun

But I am talking about track time, which electric cars are seriously taking over.

I then replied to why I bought a Z4 being the handling and engagement factors trump lower 0-60 times for me and that I take it to a track to have fun with the engine, gearbox, feedback and engagement, which an EV would not provide on track.

And then you say

Originally Posted by lonegun

but we are not even talking about track day cars as that's a completely different topic all together.

despite only one post earlier saying

Originally Posted by lonegun

But I am talking about track time, which electric cars are seriously taking over.

Quite a turn around.

[lonegun]

Originally Posted by jstein55

This thread is dead so why not take it off topic into a rant anyways.

And actually, you did make it about track day, I'll explain. I replied to your initial comment in which you mentioned a Model Y vs 911 on track.



You then replied with another comment with the Model Y vs 911 on track linking top gear after I made a simple joke of having stop reading your post.




Germanauto then replied and I changed the topic to not caring about 0-60 times, in which you mentioned the track test despite me then talking about the GLA and preferring handling over 0-60.



I then replied to why I bought a Z4 being the handling and engagement factors trump lower 0-60 times for me and that I take it to a track to have fun with the engine, gearbox, feedback and engagement, which an EV would not provide on track.

And then you say despite only one post earlier saying Quite a turn around.

Sure why not?

Well you required clarification of my "hook", so I did by providing the link to support my argument that Tesla Model Y had indeed beat 911's track time. But I guess from your point of view, it must seem like I'm only talking about track time as I seems to be presenting evidence contradicting your arguments. It's not, I'm simply presenting evidence defending my hook, which you in turn wrote off implying 977 is not a capable car:

Originally Posted by jstein55

Congrats, your upgraded Tesla beat a 10+ year old car

First let's dissect this statement. "10+ year old car"? No, it's a generation of Porche that was into production until 2012.

Second, is it capable? People lauded this generation of 911 as possibly the best generation and did remarkable time on Nurburgring. So it's definitely capable as a competitor as it will destroy most modern cars on the track.

Then I went to reply to other members who actually read my post and replied to them regarding SUV vs Sedans as you seems to faded into background.... until you came back hating on GLA45.

So no, I'm not talking about track day car, simply defending and providing evidence to my statements like a good poster would.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by lonegun

Sure why not?

Well you required clarification of my "hook", so I did by providing the link to support my argument that Tesla Model Y had indeed beat 911's track time. But I guess from your point of view, it must seem like I'm only talking about track time as I seems to be presenting evidence contradicting your arguments. It's not, I'm simply presenting evidence defending my hook, which you in turn wrote off implying 977 is not a capable car:

First let's dissect this statement. "10+ year old car"? No, it's a generation of Porche that was into production until 2012.

Second, is it capable? People lauded this generation of 911 as possibly the best generation and did remarkable time on Nurburgring. So it's definitely capable as a competitor as it will destroy most modern cars on the track.

Then I went to reply to other members who actually read my post and replied to them regarding SUV vs Sedans as you seems to faded into background.... until you came back hating on GLA45.

So no, I'm not talking about track day car, simply defending and providing evidence to my statements like a good poster would.

Again you literally said " I am talking about track time " so why keep denying it. I'm not gonna even argue that anymore as its clearly posted above where I quoted you.

As for the 911, a generation put in production from 2004-2012, so yes a 10+ year old car pretty much, at best its 8-years old or worst 16-years old, but the world has evolved greatly since the 997 came into existence. The argument was never about capability, your original statement simply states a Model Y beats a 911 on track, that's the argument. No context what so ever, you never mentioned what generation 911, so of course someone's gonna argue that statement as I did and Germanauto who quickly replied to how laughable your comment was. Like you said its a hook, and what did you expect, that a poster with a 2 point reputation score and barely 60 posts wouldn't be branded as a Tesla fanboy with statements like that? We already have Tesla fanboys on this forum and have had many try and infiltrate threads so comments like that are of course going to get grouped with them. Without context who in their right mind would believe a Model Y would beat a 911 on track, that type of comment without context makes anyone look like a fool trying to compare a bread and butter sports car to an electric SUV especially on track. When you put those two cars in the same sentence, you made a general statement, without getting into the specifics about each vehicle, most will just infer that from your very short and non-detailed statement that you mean both stock for stock and new, essentially being a "fair comparison", because as we all know, any new 911 would decimate any Tesla on track.

What your post doesn't say is this. The Model Y that beat the 911 was actually an upgraded (non-stock) Model Y riding on a prototype suspension and brake upgrades unavailable to the public and the 911 that was beaten was a 2-generation old (8-16 years old) variant. With context that changes everything greatly as well as the interpretation of your original post, so yes, I am less impressed by an upgraded Model Y beating a 10+ year 911 no matter how capable the old 911 was.

As for your post original post, you are right, I didn't read it, because why would I want to read the rest of the post after your track statement, it sounded ridiculous, so yeah, I don't care about the rest, your post lost credibility for me at that point, and was not worth reading in my opinion. I don't have to read it entirely either hence why I used the quote feature to only get the one selection I reacted to and spoke about.

With that I bid you a good night, because I have no time left on stupid arguments like this, and will be happily pressing the ignore button. Hopefully moderators will end up taking down our posts anyways. Enjoy the GLA, Model Y or whatever it is.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Lol posts like these are why people dislike Tesla fanboys. Mentioning a Model Y in the same breath as a Porsche, that too the 911.

When I worked at Tesla my clients did the same thing. So irritating.

Agree, the problem with Tesla fanboys is a lot of them are techies and not actually car people, there are a few here or there, but overall pretty rare, and the techies get real angry when you don't like what they like. I use to think Apple and BMW or Audi fanboys were bad, but they Tesla fans are another level.

[c1pher]

I think I would still get the Lamborghini, or the Cayenne. But these are big vehicles. They need big hp numbers because they are tyrannosaurus sized. I drive my 2017 Macan Turbo that will be four years old in a few months and can’t think of anything I would consider replacing it with right now.

[David70]

Originally Posted by lonegun

X1 weigh as around the same as 3 series with similar fuel economy. AMG GLA 45 can rekt a lot of Sedans.

Model Y DM and Performance is the best dollar/performance than any sports Sedan.

X1 - 24 City/ 33 hwy 27 combined
3 series 26/33 - 30 combined --- 15% better

Acceleration, handling, braking will also follow the same path. "Similar" aka worse but close enough in your mind.

I prefer to RWD for the same reason, 98% of the time I don't need or want it.

You can create a "best dollar/performance" criteria for anything if you create the metrics.

[freakystyly]

The engineers designing the suspensions of these monster SUVs deserve more praise. I've never driven a "performance" SUV nor want to, but if they can somehow manage to hide 1000lbs of weight they deserve a gold star.

I understand electric cars have a lower center of gravity but the added battery weight is literally massive and should technically cause the car to slide in corners... They don't really apply to what I meant tho.

The ICE SUVs that sit up higher i.e. trackhawk. Like in that Grand Tour episode where Hammond was throwing it around looked like it was reasonably composed without fear of tipping over.

[lonegun]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Again you literally said " I am talking about track time " so why keep denying it. I'm not gonna even argue that anymore as its clearly posted above where I quoted you.

As for the 911, a generation put in production from 2004-2012, so yes a 10+ year old car pretty much, at best its 8-years old or worst 16-years old, but the world has evolved greatly since the 997 came into existence. The argument was never about capability, your original statement simply states a Model Y beats a 911 on track, that's the argument. No context what so ever, you never mentioned what generation 911, so of course someone's gonna argue that statement as I did and Germanauto who quickly replied to how laughable your comment was. Like you said its a hook, and what did you expect, that a poster with a 2 point reputation score and barely 60 posts wouldn't be branded as a Tesla fanboy with statements like that? We already have Tesla fanboys on this forum and have had many try and infiltrate threads so comments like that are of course going to get grouped with them. Without context who in their right mind would believe a Model Y would beat a 911 on track, that type of comment without context makes anyone look like a fool trying to compare a bread and butter sports car to an electric SUV especially on track. When you put those two cars in the same sentence, you made a general statement, without getting into the specifics about each vehicle, most will just infer that from your very short and non-detailed statement that you mean both stock for stock and new, essentially being a "fair comparison", because as we all know, any new 911 would decimate any Tesla on track.

What your post doesn't say is this. The Model Y that beat the 911 was actually an upgraded (non-stock) Model Y riding on a prototype suspension and brake upgrades unavailable to the public and the 911 that was beaten was a 2-generation old (8-16 years old) variant. With context that changes everything greatly as well as the interpretation of your original post, so yes, I am less impressed by an upgraded Model Y beating a 10+ year 911 no matter how capable the old 911 was.

As for your post original post, you are right, I didn't read it, because why would I want to read the rest of the post after your track statement, it sounded ridiculous, so yeah, I don't care about the rest, your post lost credibility for me at that point, and was not worth reading in my opinion. I don't have to read it entirely either hence why I used the quote feature to only get the one selection I reacted to and spoke about.

With that I bid you a good night, because I have no time left on stupid arguments like this, and will be happily pressing the ignore button. Hopefully moderators will end up taking down our posts anyways. Enjoy the GLA, Model Y or whatever it is.

And why did I put that in the first sentence of that post? To support the fact a relatively cheap SUV CAN be fast very functional in the same time, which you made no attempts to talk about. Instead you try to argue with the fact that it did indeed beat 911's track time, which is silly as I had already provided the link. Then you try to twist that fact by attempting to downplay the importance of 977 generation of 911, which DOES NOT disprove my statement in the first place. No one is saying Model Y is the best track car. I'm simply stating the fact it's more than capable.

So I will restate my point again, if you are in the market to buy a fast SUV either in straight-lines or on road, Model Y is a really good value for that.

[lonegun]

Originally Posted by David70

X1 - 24 City/ 33 hwy 27 combined
3 series 26/33 - 30 combined --- 15% better

Acceleration, handling, braking will also follow the same path. "Similar" aka worse but close enough in your mind.

I prefer to RWD for the same reason, 98% of the time I don't need or want it.

You can create a "best dollar/performance" criteria for anything if you create the metrics.

The new generation of 3 series, which IS better in fuel economy thanks to the engine components upgrade. Before the refresh in 2018, they have the exact same fuel economy of the combine 27 MPG. But unfortunately the new 3 series also suffered from the reliability issues perhaps due to these upgrades.

But if you really don't need that extra space and clearance especially in the snow or off road, then sure go for the 3 series. It WILL handle better on dry road, but not necessary in more extreme conditions. There's a reason why rally cars are front wheel drive based.

[David70]

Originally Posted by lonegun

The new generation of 3 series, which IS better in fuel economy thanks to the engine components upgrade. Before the refresh in 2018, they have the exact same fuel economy of the combine 27 MPG. But unfortunately the new 3 series also suffered from the reliability issues perhaps due to these upgrades.

But if you really don't need that extra space and clearance especially in the snow or off road, then sure go for the 3 series. It WILL handle better on dry road, but not necessary in more extreme conditions. There's a reason why rally cars are front wheel drive based.

2017 -

X1 S Drive 23/32/26 combined
330i 23/34/27 combined

FWD based vehicles are good for economy (part of reason it almost matches the 3 series), space and reducing cost. Bad for weight distribution and handling. Nobody buys a fwd based vehicle because they want the best handling vehicle and there's a reason RWD vehicles dominate the higher ends of the price spectrum.

[lonegun]

Originally Posted by David70

2017 -

X1 S Drive 23/32/26 combined
330i 23/34/27 combined

FWD based vehicles are good for economy (part of reason it almost matches the 3 series), space and reducing cost. Bad for weight distribution and handling. Nobody buys a fwd based vehicle because they want the best handling vehicle and there's a reason RWD vehicles dominate the higher ends of the price spectrum.

Unless you are in the snow or gravel To me, I want a car that can perform in any B road condition including some occasion off-roading. 3 series doesn't quite have enough clearance for that. Even potpoles on pavements can pose significant threat to the car. Not to mention it's longer and harder to park in cities. X1 is smaller in dimension while having much bigger trunk and interior space. Sure it's not as pretty or doesn't handle as nicely on perfect pavement, but that's a car I would take to the rockies in snow or sun.