[whammond]

Hi, i have a 2007 328xi, i purchased the car as a no start project.

Orgionally it was a no crank, i put a new starter in and now it cranks but still no start.

Using inpa i have see and communicate with all modules except for the DME,
i have checked all DME and CAS fuses and they are all good.

DME has power from the 10amp fuse, but the DME is not enaguging the relay to provide power over the 30 amp. i have verified the relay works.

its as if the DME is not waking up. i have verified the CAS is sending 12v to the DME over the 15_wakeup line.

only thing i can think of know is if its a key, ews issue not turning on the DME. I have never dived into inpa before, looking through the menus i see it is saying "status immobilisation system invalid"

https://postimg.cc/gallery/BDg7Tx8[IMG]
https://postimg.cc/gallery/BDg7Tx8[/IMG]

so im not sure if my issue is the CAS or the DME, don't have much history on the car as far s what the previous owner did to trouble shoot the car.

any ideas on what to try next would be greatly appreciated.
as well if anybody knows if my invalid immobilization is normal or not.

Thanks,

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by whammond

Hi, i have a 2007 328xi, i purchased the car as a no start project. Originally it was a no crank, i put a new starter in and now it cranks but still no start. Using inpa i have see and communicate with all modules except for the DME; i have checked all DME and CAS fuses and they are all good.

DME has power from the 10amp fuse, but the DME is not enaguging the relay to provide power over the 30 amp. i have verified the relay works. Its as if the DME is not waking up. i have verified the CAS is sending 12v to the DME over the 15_wakeup line.

only thing i can think of know is if its a key, ews issue not turning on the DME. I have never dived into inpa before, looking through the menus i see it is saying "status immobilisation system invalid" [WHAT INPA screen is showing you that status? Is that CAS F5 Status or DME F5 Status, and WHICH Function Key sequence?]...

Sounds like you have a good understanding of the situation. If I understand your description correctly, the DME Main Relay (K6300 in the TIS Schematics) is NOT being activated. As you may know, that DME Relay is activated by a ground signal from the DME, Pin #13 of Connector X60005 at the DME on the E-box. Since you have INPA and have been able to get it working and connect with the CAS Module, I would suggest taking the time to learn to use INPA to see ALL relevant data, such as the screens attached below that will show you DME Main Relay Status and also allow you to test "Activation" of that relay. If you will post the last 7 characters of your VIN, I can make sure we are looking at the correct TIS wiring diagram, or simply provide your build month/year.

The second CAS screen you attach shows proper key recognition and CAS activation. The fact that the Starter Cranks when START button is pushed with Brake/Clutch pressed indicates that "Terminal 50" in the CAS is being activated during START press, to activate Starter Solenoid. You would see the third line in your first CAS screen, "Status Clamp 50", change from "OFF" to ON during ~ 2 seconds of Starter Cranking. I don't see anything amiss in either of your attached screens.

If you want to simply apply a ground jumper to the K6300 Electromagnet (-) terminal, you can see if that allows the engine to fire, and that will establish the reason for NO K6300 activation. Testing for the actual wiring or DME Fault (corroded pin #13 is common) will take longer. Here is the TIS wiring diagram for the K6300 circuit for 2007 model build 3/1/2007 or later. If you have EARLIER model, there is MORE stuff in the E-box, including the relay itself, and a 5-fuse carrier for Engine Electronics.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-fault/xGCYTPF

To view the FIRST attached screen on YOUR INPA installation, Connect to the DME (Engine > MSV80 (DME). At the DME Main Menu, select F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 Measured Value Block 1, and Terminal 87 Voltage should be 12.0V+ with Ignition ON. My guess is that you will see ~ 0 Volts.

To view the 2nd attached INPA Screen, here is the Menu Path:
DME > F6 Activations > F2 > F1 Activate Terminal 87, DME Main Relay. The attached screen shows Terminal 87 voltage at 14.73 V with engine running. I did NOT "Over-ride" DME control. In your case, at that screen, with Ignition ON, but engine NOT running, you would press F1 to try to activate the relay, and F2 to deactivate the relay. My guess is that you will see NO activation (circle should fill/blacken) when pressing F1.

Please let us know vehicle information,
George

[whammond]

Thanks a ton for the help!

unforntalty i have already disconnected pin 13 and applied a ground to that line. When i do this i still get crank and no start. I do get voltage applied to the DME fuse in the fuse box when pin 13 is connected to ground.
so at least i know my relay is functional.

my car is a mid 2007 build, so it has all of the wiring diagrams for the year 2007 exclusively. ill check my VIN and post later for convenience as well.

my main trouble is that i get zero communication to the DME, in inpa or ista i connect connect the the DME at all.

i can only access the CAS and other modules. im really running out of ideas. only think i can think of now is that i have a problem with the canbus to explain the communication issues.

beyond that i think the car might need a new DME, at that point i don't know what to do because that may cost more than i paid for the car in the end

As well how do i attach photos into my posts?

https://postimg.cc/gallery/3kRHJzB[IMG]
https://postimg.cc/gallery/3kRHJzB[/IMG]

pic of cranking voltage is after several crank attempts. my battery is strong (new) i charged it right after this picture.

[whammond]

Could my no DME communication be caused by EWS?

when i select DME from inpa it says something like "module not found"
i also have no check engine light.

if i swapped a used MSV80 dme from the juk yard should i be able to communicate with the new DME?

i know i will have a no start in that case from a CAS/DME sync issue, but should i be able to at least commincate with the new DME?

that might be the best way for me to trouble shoot if i do have a failed DME, or bad wiring(power).

as if i have no communication with new DME then i know its wiring.
if i do get communication then its expensive, as i have to find or purchase expensive programing tools to change my CAS to the ISN of the new DME

at least that's what I've been reading so far, and may have a misunderstanding somwhere

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by whammond

... I do get voltage applied to the DME fuse in the fuse box when pin 13 is connected to ground. so at least i know my relay is functional. my car is a mid 2007 build, so it has all of the wiring diagrams for the year 2007 exclusively. ill check my VIN and post later for convenience as well. [Was awaiting that to make SURE we had correct TIS wiring diagram ]
My main trouble is that i get zero communication to the DME, in inpa or ista i connect connect the the DME at all. ... when i select DME from inpa it says something like "module not found" [I presume you mean that using INPA/ISTA you CANNOT connect to the DME at all?] ...

My SWAG on evidence presented thus far is that neither ISTA nor INPA can "See" or communicate with DME because:
1) The DME is NOT being powered via the 10A fuse that is "Terminal 30" or Battery-powered (NOT Ignition-switched), Always HOT when battery connected;
2) The PT-CAN connections to the DME are NOT properly connected; OR
3) There is an Internal Problem with the DME.

I DO have a suggested test. My 3/2007 build 328xi E91 has the following TIS wiring diagram. Note that 10-Amp fuse F50 ("30" above it means it's battery powered/UN-switched) should ALWAYS be supplying power to pin #1 of Connector X60003 at the DME. Here's the "catch": Your INPA or ISTA SHOULD be able to "See" the presence of the DME and ALL other Modules, except perhaps the MRS Module, WITH IGNITION OFF.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...supply/xGCYTPF

I just connected INPA to my OBD II Socket, WITHOUT the Remote Key anywhere near my NON-CA vehicle (so NO Ignition ON), and Accessed Functional Tools, F2 Identification. I had to push F2 twice to have it see ALL Modules (19 of 20 -- the "01 MRS Module (MRS5) never appeared, but ALL the others, including the DME appeared. I could even use Functional Jobs > F4 Fault Memory, ALL Modules, to see Fault status of each. Once Again, Ignition OFF.

So DME Relay does NOT have to be activated to have DME & other Modules (EXCEPT MRS) be "Visible" to INPA. I would expect ISTA connection to view "Control Unit Tree" with Bus connection lines, to show the SAME thing, although I did NOT try ISTA.

So I would suggest viewing, and saving ScreenPrints of, those two Functional Jobs Screens: F2 Identification (press F2 several times) and F4 Fault Memory, Paste ScreenPrint to "Paint" Photo Editor, SaveAs jpg files and attach those jpg's here. Recheck F50 ELECTRICALLY, and/or backprobe X60003/Pin#1 to test for 12V+ (Battery Power-- NO need to have Ignition on).

George

[gbalthrop]

I failed to notice that your Post #3 contained photos of BOTH the INPA Functional Jobs F2 Identification Screen I referenced (NO 12 DME), AND the ISTA Control Unit Tree Screen, showing the DME as "Red" (No communication).

However, I would STILL do the "Functional Jobs > F4 > Fault Memory, ALL Modules check I mentioned (Ignition OFF), and see if 12 DME is listed, and if so, WHAT Faults are listed.

I'm NO expert on the PT-CAN bus or HOW the DME functions, but I still think that it's quite possible that you have LACK of Battery Power to X60003/1 via fuse F50 or the Red & Red/Black wires between the Fuse and DME Connector. Note that there is an "Intervening Connector", X6011, in the E-box, and I would test for power on BOTH wires that meet at that connector, as well as "backprobing" X60003/1, Red Wire, at the DME. Here is the DME Power Supply schematic again, along with X6011 Installation Location & X6011 Connector View:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...supply/xGCYTPF
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...200703/SL92ADs
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00703/Cjob60dQ

As a bit of trivia: I CAN view INPA > Functional Jobs > F2 Identification, with Ignition OFF, and see ALL Modules except MRS. I CANNOT see the Control Unit Tree in ISTA UNLESS I turn ignition ON. What that means which is NOT trivia: I was WRONG in ASSuming that the DME Main Relay (K6300) had to be Activated (Terminal 87 Active) to be able to "See" the DME using INPA. So that's why I'm NOW suggesting to check B+ power supply to X60003/1.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[icon2015]

whammond disconnect pin 13 in DDE and apply a ground to that line. Put the key in slot, press START once, open ISTA, go to CAS-DME adjustment, make the adjustment, and the car should start(if the car sat for a long time it may not start due to injectors or other mechanical parts).

Most likely there is something wrong with the DME, or that pin got corroded or broken.

[whammond]

Hi all,

Sorry for late responses, had to take a break from the car for other projects but I’m back on it.

I have already verified the full time none switched power to the dme, I have also verified dme grounds. The dme is 100% getting power, but it is not communicating with the vechile or Grounding pin 13.

I have also used separate cables and scanners, I will try rescanning with the key far away. But it’s safe to say me dme has no communication.

It’s either a problem with my bus wiring, or an internal dme fault.

Question is: if I swap in a junk yard dme, it will not have the same vin or CAS pairing. So will not start. But in theory should I still be able to communicate with this alternate module?

That would allow to me either diagnose a wiring fault on the bus, or if I should be looking for a dme/cas/key module/key situation from a parts car online.

Thanks all
For the help thus far