[Patton250]

Ha

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Ha

Thank you for showing my point.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Ha

Cute. But I see a structure to the left of the picture. could the generator be for that structure?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Cute. But I see a structure to the left of the picture. could the generator be for that structure?

Nope. This is a remote charging station for EV‘s. It uses a generator. I realize they are not all that way but you still have to generate electricity somehow and most electrical generation plants in America are coal fired because the environmentalists won’t let us build more nuclear powered facilities.

[dscabra]

Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89

I have a feeling these tough laws forcing EV's will eventually be pushed out somewhat as the infrastructure is just not going to all be there in 10-15 years. Then I think about all the 2nd hand cars sent to "emerging" markets in Latin America, Africa, and Asia and their lack of funds to support the infrastructure to switch to EV's...most of the developing world will still pollute the world so it all just seems so convoluted.

If the EV infrastructure development is anything like the Telecom industry, those "emerging" markets will skip right to the cutting edge technologies. I watched advanced digital communications infrastructure get implemented in countries that had nothing in place well ahead of countries with established infrastructures.

[synchronicityii]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I realize they are not all that way but you still have to generate electricity somehow and most electrical generation plants in America are coal fired because the environmentalists won’t let us build more nuclear powered facilities.

This is not correct. Per LLNL's latest US energy generation/consumption chart (these are annual and considered authoritative), out of 35.6 quads (quadrillion BTUs) of electricity generated in the US in 2020, the largest amount came from natural gas at 12.0 quads, with nuclear and coal tied for second place at 8.25 quads.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by dscabra

If the EV infrastructure development is anything like the Telecom industry, those "emerging" markets will skip right to the cutting edge technologies. I watched advanced digital communications infrastructure get implemented in countries that had nothing in place well ahead of countries with established infrastructures.

Except with electricity and ENERGY you need hard infrastructure lines to be built. Not just build a bunch of cell towers which relay wireless signals.

And guess how the infrastructure is built to support the electric fantasy? A bunch of fossil fueled vehicles.

[dscabra]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

Except with electricity and ENERGY you need hard infrastructure lines to be built. Not just build a bunch of cell towers which relay wireless signals.

And guess how the infrastructure is built to support the electric fantasy? A bunch of fossil fueled vehicles.

Very true.

[r3dbimmer89]

Originally Posted by dscabra

If the EV infrastructure development is anything like the Telecom industry, those "emerging" markets will skip right to the cutting edge technologies. I watched advanced digital communications infrastructure get implemented in countries that had nothing in place well ahead of countries with established infrastructures.

Electrical grids are nothing like installing cell towers. This was not meant to be a dig as I am an American of Latin American descent. I know first hand in countries like Dominican Republic, for instance, the local energy co. routinely cuts power at times. Sometimes daily. My question is how is one going to efficiently charge an EV when a country has an unreliable power grid..

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I'm not trying to say you're wrong or predict the future. Just that it may work out differently than what seems obvious.

My point above also ties to this one too...My cousin has big business sending 2nd hand cars to Central America from the states. He told me the auctions are full of buyers like him who are sending 2nd hand cars to countries like Nigeria, etc. New cars are heavily taxed in those countries. A new Honda Civic costs $45,000 in Brazil....and the average Brazilian makes under $500 a month.. the economics does not make sense to immediately switch over to EV's for most in the world so suddenly when there isn't the infrastructure in place nor the incomes to afford a brand new EV...unless Elon can come up with a $10k EV that the developing world could afford...I look at current EV's like the automobiles available pre Model T.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89

Electrical grids are nothing like installing cell towers. This was not meant to be a dig as I am an American of Latin American descent. I know first hand in countries like Dominican Republic, for instance, the local energy co. routinely cuts power at times. Sometimes daily. My question is how is one going to efficiently charge an EV when a country has an unreliable power grid..

They are not, or was that rhetorical?

[chef423]

Cant believe people think moving to electric cars is going to actually save us from something. Holy god.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Even here in California, charging infrastructure is a joke. You'll see a handful of Tesla chargers are some grocery stores that's it. I'm sure Electrify America chargers exist, but I have yet to spot one in the wild. In its current state, all this legislation to ban ICE is clearly far-fetched and not feasible.

BMW and Toyota seem to be the only mass-market automakers who are being pragmatic about electrification.

When I had my i3 I rarely kept it fully charged though. It was like driving with half tank of gas on average. I only charged the car overnight once per week at home, rest of time was partial charge at Whole Foods during weekly run and office parking garage (pre-Covid).

Unless you live in an urban area, most will leave their cars plugged in at home so I don’t think number is stations is that lacking given current number of EVs on the road.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

When I had my i3 I rarely kept it fully charged though. It was like driving with half tank of gas on average. I only charged the car overnight once per week at home, rest of time was partial charge at Whole Foods during weekly run and office parking garage (pre-Covid).

Unless you live in an urban area, most will leave their cars plugged in at home so I don’t think number is stations is that lacking given current number of EVs on the road.

Many people in the world live in a high density residential area (high rise apartments, low rise units, terrace with off street parking only) where charging at home is not an option

Some world governments see BEV as a blanket solution to be applied globally. This will not work. BEV should be taken as a localised solution. It will fit some perfectly but not for others. This is the reason why Toyota believes BEV is not THE solution and instead investing in other solutions that is more versatile.

[Holset]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Ha

Electric digger charged by Diesel generator in Oslo Norway.

https://www.nrk.no/osloogviken/her-l...gat-1.15600997

[TAZ007]

I believe we all agree the infrastructure is 15-20 years out for a full EV life.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

When I had my i3 I rarely kept it fully charged though. It was like driving with half tank of gas on average. I only charged the car overnight once per week at home, rest of time was partial charge at Whole Foods during weekly run and office parking garage (pre-Covid).

Unless you live in an urban area, most will leave their cars plugged in at home so I don’t think number is stations is that lacking given current number of EVs on the road.

Correct but these politicians can't expect 100% of EV owners to remember to plug in their cars 100% of the time. My buddy's wife, for example, always forgets to plug in her Model 3 Performance at home and has to end up coming to our workplace and switch cars with him. They are looking to sell it and get into an X3M.

In LA, so many people street park. Literally the entire basin, bleeding into north/west Orange County, is street parking-dependent. How do they plan on providing a charging network for these people? And what would be the environmental impact of trying to build and upkeep so many chargers?

I'm really not convinced EVs are the answer for everybody. Invest in infrastructure, sure, but let the people decide which type of vehicle works best for their lifestyle. Passenger cars make up a minute percentage of overall CO2 emissions, and even converting 100% of them to EV tomorrow would not make a dent in climate change progression. In 20-30 yrs when all cars are EV, climate change will continue to chug along. It's always comical seeing smug colleagues hop in their Teslas and go to their 5000 sq ft energy-consuming homes, thinking they are saving the world.

[a.dobi]

I keep my fingers crossed that internal combustion engines will never die

[taek]

I appreciate the transparency Volvo provides for people buying their EVs.

Their provided information clearly shows there is a small emissions advantage for opting for the EV, not a massive advantage and not a zero advantage.

And it also shows that just creating a new car creates a massive amount of emissions in the first place, and most of it is not related to the battery. As we speak, China is ordering hundreds of new coal mines to be opened to meet the world's growing demands for parts, including magnesium which is required for aluminum in cars.



They also provide the breakeven point where the EV is better than the ICE version of the vehicle. For this model it is 110k / 68k miles, another piece of information buyers may want to know (for example, my wife drives about 4000 miles per year...it would take her 17 years to reach the breakeven point...she would be better off buying the ICE version).

I think this kind of information is rare because it clearly shows that the best thing people can do for the climate is...to not buy new cars. And car brands don't want people to know that.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by taek

I appreciate the transparency Volvo provides for people buying their EVs.

Their provided information clearly shows there is a small emissions advantage for opting for the EV, not a massive advantage and not a zero advantage.

And it also shows that just creating a new car creates a massive amount of emissions in the first place, and most of it is not related to the battery. As we speak, China is ordering hundreds of new coal mines to be opened to meet the world's growing demands for parts, including magnesium which is required for aluminum in cars.

They also provide the breakeven point where the EV is better than the ICE version of the vehicle. For this model it is 110k / 68k miles, another piece of information buyers may want to know (for example, my wife drives about 4000 miles per year...it would take her 17 years to reach the breakeven point...she would be better off buying the ICE version).

I think this kind of information is rare because it clearly shows that the best thing people can do for the climate is...to not buy new cars. And car brands don't want people to know that.

This is why I argue that if these politicians REALLY cared about climate change, they would attempt to transition us away from car dependence. I love cars, I love driving, but I hate sitting in stressful LA traffic just to do anything. It hurts our quality of life, physical health, mental health, and is terrible for the environment. A subway/bullet train type infrastructure is decades overdue.

But no, this state has too much red tape and financial interest in making sure it does not happen. Gotta keep all the companies with a vested interest in car dependence happy.

[jp1984]

I personally am happy for an EV future.

The more people that sell their old ICE E30s, E36s, E46s for a new EV, would make me happy as I will be able to pick up their "junkers" at a low price. May drive gas prices down too! Premium is expensive!

Wishful thinking right?