[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The porsche tax is real, look for a 2 yr old Stelvio with low miles and save a fortune. Looks sexier, goes like stink in D mode and handles nearly as well as the Porsche.

I sorta agree but also disagree. I just don't find the base 4 cyl inspiring enough. But I will say the Stelvio's proper RWD chassis (unlike the Macan's MLB underpinnings) combined with it's very quick steering make it a very compelling sporty CUV. The Macan's steering is downright slow in comparison until you get up to speed, where it quickens nicely.

I just think the QV is the Stelvio to buy to really get the most out of the car, but it is ~$90k. Unfortunate there is no mid-trim V6 option in the power category of the Macan S/GTS models.

I would recommend OP at least test drive it though. Stelvios look nice in the right color/wheel combination.

[BMW_KUN]

New member here.

How can I create a thread to ask questions ?

I'm a bit confused as to how the forum works.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I'm sure the Stelvio is a fine vehicle, but when the heart craves a German stallion an Italian snake ain't gonna cut it.

I think you'd be surprised man. The Giulia QV is going to be more enjoyable to drive than nearly any 4-door Porsche on the market. And the Stelvio QV even wins comparison tests against top-spec Macan models.

I think Doug summed it up well in his refreshed Stelvio QV review. Nobody shopping for an SUV wants the best driving SUV because if they did they'd get the Alfa, they just want something "nice" with more brand cachet like a Cayenne.

The 110+ yr old Italian snake may not have Porsche's snob appeal, but it knows how to build a driver's car.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Wife has a Black/Black 2018 Macan GTS loaded..... beautiful car

[Llarry]

We have a '21 Macan GTS as well. When you buy new, the first service is free and we had that a year ago. Now it is time to pony up the Porsche tax! There is also a Porsche tax on options: Figure 50% more than BMW for essentially identical options.

On the other hand, the Macan is a terrific vehicle. Note, however, that -- as a previous poster mentioned -- the rear seat is tight. If you've got kids (even if very young), I'd look elsewhere. With just my wife and I, perfect! I've driven base loaners and they are fine -- all Macans have great handling. The S and up are real performance machines.

[jab23]

I had a Cayenne GTS for 5 years. The longest I've owned any car of a LOT of cars. I know this is a Macan discussion, but I mention that because even with my car ADD, it kept my attention. I loved it. Regret letting it go. The new Macan GTS will be high on my list next year when it comes time for something new.

I don't recall the Porsche service being all that much more than my current X5M. Maybe a bit.

The one thing of value I can add is my 60+ year old neighbor had a 2020 Macan base and loved everything about it, except the power. She traded it for a 2022 S and is much happier.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I think you'd be surprised man. The Giulia QV is going to be more enjoyable to drive than nearly any 4-door Porsche on the market. And the Stelvio QV even wins comparison tests against top-spec Macan models.

I think Doug summed it up well in his refreshed Stelvio QV review. Nobody shopping for an SUV wants the best driving SUV because if they did they'd get the Alfa, they just want something "nice" with more brand cachet like a Cayenne.

The 110+ yr old Italian snake may not have Porsche's snob appeal, but it knows how to build a driver's car.

I very much appreciate Alfa's heritage and styling. I have not driven an Alfa for many years and I know the performance is superb, but I have grave reservations about reliability of the brand. Has yours been solid?

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Llarry

I very much appreciate Alfa's heritage and styling. I have not driven an Alfa for many years and I know the performance is superb, but I have grave reservations about reliability of the brand. Has yours been solid?

I too have reservations about reliability lolll. I can't speak to it man, I haven't even hit 17k miles yet. So far so good, but every car should be flawless up to this point.

I'm a fellow Porsche enthusiast for sure. That or the new M2 will be my next move. Alfa is great but their portfolio is limited.

[Drtsk]

I’ve had one or more Porsche in my garage since 1996. So I think I know little about them. And I would never get a Macan. Test drove a S and GTS and was very disappointed. It’s definitely more Audi than Porsche.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

I’ve had one or more Porsche in my garage since 1996. So I think I know little about them. And I would never get a Macan. Test drove a S and GTS and was very disappointed. It’s definitely more Audi than Porsche.

Is there more on the “more Audi”? Seats, audio, lighting?

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by chassis

Is there more on the “more Audi”? Seats, audio, lighting?

It is the same with a lot of other Porsche owners. If they come from the 911 end, they won't overlook cars like the Macan because it is an amalgamation of Audi parts. But they seem to forget one thing regarding Porsche's history. Porsche started as a car consultant company that occasionally built cars. That is where almost all of their cars came from originally. 924/944 was a consulting gig with VW, even the 911 is based from a freaken VW Beetle.

Regardless of what you think about the Macan, it demonstrates one thing Porsche has always done extremely well. They take things that shouldn't work all that well together, constantly (overly) engineer it until it is as close to what they want the car to be, and in the process make it extremely expensive.

Current Macan has been around since 2014, multiple refreshes since. Yes the PDK in the car is a Audi DSG unit, yes most of the car is a Audi Q5 but I have very rarely ever heard people who buy the Macan whine about it. Only the old guard of Porsche owners do, they do the same with Cayenne as well. The only major complaint I have had about the Macan is, 4 popper doesn't fit the car, the V6 is very, well rumbly and not smooth at all. The car is heavy and you feel it, gas mileage in the V6 is not good. BMW B58 is not only better on gas mileage but smoother and far better in terms of performance. Even the B48 is better than the corporate VW 4 popper Porsche shoved in the Macan.

If you are comparing just numbers, the X3 M40i/X3M will blow the Macan S/GTS completely out of the water. However, numbers aren't everything and if nothing else the suspension on the X3 (M40i or X3M) is just... ass compared to the Macan, especially if the Macan has PASM (Air Suspension). Macan also handles better. X3 is fine in general, no one would notice a thing but driving the two back to back, X3 M40i/X3M is definitely faster (a lot faster), the straight six (as with all BMW sixes) is buttery smooth. BMW has better infotainment but it handles worse and it doesn't feel (at times) too well put together. Macan has better handling, suspension is far better sorted even if you don't have the air suspension. The Macan just feels sturdy built like a rock, if nothing else that is probably enough for most people honestly. The reason why Macan is popular with women is for mostly that reason, the car feels safe. They don't care about the PDK (I do of course). It is quiet, good commuter for most. Downside? 4popper in the Macan doesn't compare to the 4popper in the base X3. B58 in the X3 M40i and X3M/X4M is far smoother and better than the cooperate VW V6 in the Macan S/GTS (same engine you find in a lot of VW and Audi cars). Infotainment, while better in the newer Porsches, still doesn't compare to the iDrive (even if the newer iDrive is cluttered).

I have not run into another SUV that handles and drives like my Macan GTS. Sport mode makes V6 more natural but it shakes the car a lot, if... you care about that. PDK is fine, I still hate the fact that the manual shifting is backwards on the shifters (STILL). I'd take handling over straight speed, which is why I would always choose the Macan over the X3 M40i/X3M. Also because I will always take a dual clutch tranny over a ZF (regardless if it is actually an Audi DSG unit and not Porsche's actual own PDK).

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

I’ve had one or more Porsche in my garage since 1996. So I think I know little about them. And I would never get a Macan. Test drove a S and GTS and was very disappointed. It’s definitely more Audi than Porsche.

Not sure what you mean by that but the Macan is nearly universally praised and beats out anything in its class in terms of driving dynamics. Price aside, I don't think many people would choose the Audi equivalent over the Macan.

In my experience, the Macan drove far better than any other SUV/crossover I had driven.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Not sure what you mean by that but the Macan is nearly universally praised and beats out anything in its class in terms of driving dynamics. Price aside, I don't think many people would choose the Audi equivalent over the Macan.

In my experience, the Macan drove far better than any other SUV/crossover I had driven.

Yeah, the results in autoX prove this as much to me as anything else

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I think you'd be surprised man. The Giulia QV is going to be more enjoyable to drive than nearly any 4-door Porsche on the market. And the Stelvio QV even wins comparison tests against top-spec Macan models.

I think Doug summed it up well in his refreshed Stelvio QV review. Nobody shopping for an SUV wants the best driving SUV because if they did they'd get the Alfa, they just want something "nice" with more brand cachet like a Cayenne.

The 110+ yr old Italian snake may not have Porsche's snob appeal, but it knows how to build a driver's car.

I'm sure it drives amazing but for me it wasn't even an option because for one it probably never even came to mind as you don't see them very often around here. Also it's a Fiat and their reputation precedes them. Maybe it's bs and overblown, maybe not, but it does have that stigma. However most importantly for me... I just don't like how it looks. Now that's subjective, but to me the Macan and Cayenne look super sexy, especially the 2019 refreshed ones. I actually hate the styling on the original Cayennes, but I think they have it nailed down now. Even the interior, which I hate almost all Porsche interiors, is now pretty sexy looking to me.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I'm sure it drives amazing but for me it wasn't even an option because for one it probably never even came to mind as you don't see them very often around here. Also it's a Fiat and their reputation precedes them. Maybe it's bs and overblown, maybe not, but it does have that stigma. However most importantly for me... I just don't like how it looks. Now that's subjective, but to me the Macan and Cayenne look super sexy, especially the 2019 refreshed ones. I actually hate the styling on the original Cayennes, but I think they have it nailed down now. Even the interior, which I hate almost all Porsche interiors, is now pretty sexy looking to me.

Stelvios do look quite pedestrian unless optioned nicely. I agree the Macans look good. my dad has one and I love the design (for an SUV). Interior is on the simple side which is fine since the focus is on the driving experience. Very solid build quality.

The newest Cayenne is nice looking too, but still gives me soccer mom vibes lol. Maybe because they are so common. But it's the only choice in that segment that is at least somewhat pleasurable to drive.

[Flying05]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

We were in the market for a Macan but ended up with the Cayenne. We drove several Macans though, personally I felt the base model should have been the S. Also I believe for the 2022 models they got rid of the buttons on the center console and went for the "glass" look like in the Cayennes. It's personal preference but I wasn't a huge fan of the buttons.

Also if this is your first porsche be prepared for the p tax on everything. Dealers want $500 for a basic oil change so be prepared to pay or diy or find a good indy. I found a local guy who specializes in p cars and does track prep etc. He charges just under $300.

But yeah if you are ok with that then IMO it's an awesome car. We bought ours CPO in January, apart from an issue right when we got it with the battery it has been solid.

Are you in Australia or something for $500 oil changes? That's absurdly high. My dealer charged mid $200s on my 991.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Flying05

Are you in Australia or something for $500 oil changes? That's absurdly high. My dealer charged mid $200s on my 991.

that's what I was quoted at one dealer in FL and one in NC. I did not pay it. I went to a local indy that did it for under $300.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Arcades

It is the same with a lot of other Porsche owners. If they come from the 911 end, they won't overlook cars like the Macan because it is an amalgamation of Audi parts. But they seem to forget one thing regarding Porsche's history. Porsche started as a car consultant company that occasionally built cars. That is where almost all of their cars came from originally. 924/944 was a consulting gig with VW, even the 911 is based from a freaken VW Beetle.

Regardless of what you think about the Macan, it demonstrates one thing Porsche has always done extremely well. They take things that shouldn't work all that well together, constantly (overly) engineer it until it is as close to what they want the car to be, and in the process make it extremely expensive.

Current Macan has been around since 2014, multiple refreshes since. Yes the PDK in the car is a Audi DSG unit, yes most of the car is a Audi Q5 but I have very rarely ever heard people who buy the Macan whine about it. Only the old guard of Porsche owners do, they do the same with Cayenne as well. The only major complaint I have had about the Macan is, 4 popper doesn't fit the car, the V6 is very, well rumbly and not smooth at all. The car is heavy and you feel it, gas mileage in the V6 is not good. BMW B58 is not only better on gas mileage but smoother and far better in terms of performance. Even the B48 is better than the corporate VW 4 popper Porsche shoved in the Macan.

If you are comparing just numbers, the X3 M40i/X3M will blow the Macan S/GTS completely out of the water. However, numbers aren't everything and if nothing else the suspension on the X3 (M40i or X3M) is just... ass compared to the Macan, especially if the Macan has PASM (Air Suspension). Macan also handles better. X3 is fine in general, no one would notice a thing but driving the two back to back, X3 M40i/X3M is definitely faster (a lot faster), the straight six (as with all BMW sixes) is buttery smooth. BMW has better infotainment but it handles worse and it doesn't feel (at times) too well put together. Macan has better handling, suspension is far better sorted even if you don't have the air suspension. The Macan just feels sturdy built like a rock, if nothing else that is probably enough for most people honestly. The reason why Macan is popular with women is for mostly that reason, the car feels safe. They don't care about the PDK (I do of course). It is quiet, good commuter for most. Downside? 4popper in the Macan doesn't compare to the 4popper in the base X3. B58 in the X3 M40i and X3M/X4M is far smoother and better than the cooperate VW V6 in the Macan S/GTS (same engine you find in a lot of VW and Audi cars). Infotainment, while better in the newer Porsches, still doesn't compare to the iDrive (even if the newer iDrive is cluttered).

I have not run into another SUV that handles and drives like my Macan GTS. Sport mode makes V6 more natural but it shakes the car a lot, if... you care about that. PDK is fine, I still hate the fact that the manual shifting is backwards on the shifters (STILL). I'd take handling over straight speed, which is why I would always choose the Macan over the X3 M40i/X3M. Also because I will always take a dual clutch tranny over a ZF (regardless if it is actually an Audi DSG unit and not Porsche's actual own PDK).

Good review.

The VW 3.0/2.9 V6 is a 90 degree hot vee with balancer, which explains the roughness and vibration, especially compared with the BMW inline 6.

I rented an X3M for a week and did not like it at all. Too loud, harsh and nervous. This was in Germany where road quality is an order of magnitude better than in the US. I had an X3M40i as a loaner in the US and it was fun, but have not compared it to a Macan. The 4-banger in the X3 base model is buttery smooth for a 4-banger, and the ZF box is excellent as expected.

The only objection to the Macan for me is the PDK. It is a niche/oddball transmission that has been around for a while, but in low production volume. The only way I would own a PDK is under manufacturer's warranty, manufacturer CPO or known-good third party extended warranty. On the other hand I have owned, do and would again own an Aisin or ZF box beyond the warranty period.

[Flying05]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

that's what I was quoted at one dealer in FL and one in NC. I did not pay it. I went to a local indy that did it for under $300.

That's nuts, but these days I guess nothing is out of the ordinary.

[dgoldenz]

A Macan oil change is $149 at my indy shop, $500 is stupid

[Alfisti]

I'm not saying this to sway the Op because if you want a porsche you want a porsche but i'll never understand how nervous the American car buyer is. most of the drama with alfa reliability was related to the quad and most of those issues were electrical, the base 2T is fine, like really you'll be fine.

And looks pedestrian? I dunno, ours runs 20 inch wheels, re don black in the old LUSSO trim whch they no longer off, not sure if it is called something else. But it is full leather inside the srceen is ACTUALLY INTEGRATED INTO THE DASH.......... amazing.

My biggest issue witht he car is the endless fuckign stream of shit coming from it, beep for this, auto brake for that, lane departure this, put your seat belt on that........... fuck ooooooooooooooooooooooooooofffffffffffff.

[Almuliman]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

My biggest issue witht he car is the endless fuckign stream of shit coming from it, beep for this, auto brake for that, lane departure this, put your seat belt on that........... fuck ooooooooooooooooooooooooooofffffffffffff.

No aftermarket support for coding that out?