[Sedoy]

Very true, there are EVs out there, but there are no EVs for enthusiasts yet. Tesla Model 3 P is being the closest... battery technology progress pretty quick, will see what happens.

Originally Posted by Germanauto

EVs are a cheat code that have democratized acceleration and handling to any and every car regardless of segment in the market. Objectively speaking they are superior to our beloved ICE, but subjectively it is up to the individual and their expectations/experience level with good driver's cars. A lot of the pro-EV crowd used to drive Priuses and Subarus so to them their Tesla is a "sports car." For the actual driving enthusiasts it's a different story.

We will just have to wait and see who can create an actual proper EV driver's car. Save for the EV Boxster and Giulia (which are a few years away) I am not seeing any such contenders. By all accounts the i4 is just a heavier and less focused version of the already ho-hum driving 4-series.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I love these guys but they sound disingenuous here, trying to sell a 5000 lb+ boat as some sort of corner carving driver's car.

I drive these canyons a lot, what matters most is having a small and light car. These massive EVs have their own gravitational pull, yet everybody in the media tries to hype them up as if they are Porsche 911s.

I didn't really see the video that way, I think they were simply complimentary of the handling for its size. They didn't really say it was sports car like, but rather that the car had a well sorted chassis, steering, brakes, etc. for a vehicle of its size and created an overall fun experience that they were surprised of and weren't expecting. I'm not too surprised by the positive handling comments as the CEO of Lucid was Chief Engineer at Lotus and according to Jason Cammisa, he's mentioned in a podcast that all Lucid chassis engineers have classic-era BMW's.

[Randy22]

I just fell in love with this car, I will definitely buy this

[Pindjurman]

Originally Posted by Randy22

I just fell in love with this car, I will definitely buy this

If the LCID stock plays nicely and follows TSLA in it's path I might just be able to afford one as well someday. Although it's been a roller coaster lately.

[stein_325i]

[stein_325i]

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by David70

Building the car is only a small part of the problem. Once they start building them how does anyone buy one (assuming straight off the internet without driving/seeing one in person) and then when something goes wrong how do they get it repaired? One of my requirements for spending tens of thousands of dollars on a vehicle (expect under warranty), is that I can get it repaired without shipping it hundreds of miles or waiting for someone to come from hundreds of miles to make it happen.

Here in Scottsdale the design studio is 11 miles from my house and the service center is around 13 miles.

But...I must admit that the manufacturing facility is also in Arizona. However, that doesn't seem to make a difference. It could be more of a problem if you are in a city without a service center and design studio.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Something needs to be done to have an industry standard on testing. Below is not acceptable.


"Lucid uses the 5-cycle test procedure to certify its vehicle's range with the EPA. Tesla, Audi, Polestar, and Rivian also use the 5-cycle test, while all other OEMs use the 2-cycle test. The 2-cycle test is a simpler method and OEMs must deduct 30% of the range the vehicle achieves on the 2-cycle test.

When using the 5-cycle test, since they complete three more test cycles, manufacturers don't have to deduct the full 30%. They do have to adjust the number downward, but it isn't a straight 30%, and it varies depending on the vehicle and the results of the 5-cycle test."


This is why Mach E outperforms it's EPA rating, their rating is based off the 2 cycle test. The Taycan did outperform as well at launch. Porsche initially used 2 cycle test, they now have switched to 5 cycle(their EPA ratings have gone up). Tesla routinely misses their EPA rating by 10-15% in real world tests.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Something needs to be done to have an industry standard on testing. Below is not acceptable.


"Lucid uses the 5-cycle test procedure to certify its vehicle's range with the EPA. Tesla, Audi, Polestar, and Rivian also use the 5-cycle test, while all other OEMs use the 2-cycle test. The 2-cycle test is a simpler method and OEMs must deduct 30% of the range the vehicle achieves on the 2-cycle test.

When using the 5-cycle test, since they complete three more test cycles, manufacturers don't have to deduct the full 30%. They do have to adjust the number downward, but it isn't a straight 30%, and it varies depending on the vehicle and the results of the 5-cycle test."


This is why Mach E outperforms it's EPA rating, their rating is based off the 2 cycle test. The Taycan did outperform as well at launch. Porsche initially used 2 cycle test, they now have switched to 5 cycle(their EPA ratings have gone up). Tesla routinely misses their EPA rating by 10-15% in real world tests.

Agreed, especially considering EV's and their data/performance metrics are so new to everyone there really needs to be a single standard across the board to make everything more equivalent to each other. I think they should put City and Highway ranges on the ratings similar to a gas car even if there is less of a difference between the two. Also MPGe has to be one of the most useless and confusing metrics out there.

[stein_325i]

[NullViking]

It's like Tesla and Kia had a weird 3/Optima baby. Not my favorite design.

[stein_325i]

Lucid Air Shows Its Darker Side with Introduction of New “Stealth Look”

Originally Posted by Lucid Motors

NEWARK, CA — August 8, 2022 — Lucid Group, Inc. (NASDAQ: LCID), setting new standards with the longest-range, fastest-charging electric car on the market with the award-winning Lucid Air, today announced Stealth Look, a new optional exterior design theme for Lucid Air with a darker and overtly sporting personality.

“From its inception, Lucid Air was designed for two distinct looks that reflect the duality of its personality: standard Platinum Look, which highlights its luxurious nature; and now Stealth Look, which is simultaneously assertive yet under-the-radar,” said Derek Jenkins, SVP of Design and Brand, Lucid Group.

“Lucid Air is undeniably one of the highest-performance vehicles on the road as exemplified by the Air Grand Touring Performance, with 1,050 horsepower, which secured the title of fastest production car in the Hillclimb Timed Shootout at this year’s Goodwood Festival of Speed. The sinister style of Stealth Look is a perfect complement.”

Turning to the Darker Side
Stealth Look will be available as an option for Air Grand Touring Performance, Air Grand Touring, and Air Touring.

Stealth Look darkly redefines the nature of Lucid Air, with changes to 35 components on the exterior of the vehicle – with dramatic effect. Among the most immediately visible changes, Air’s mirror caps and distinctive cantrails framing the Glass Canopy roof feature a darker Stealth finish. Elements of the lower body trim, as well as the trim around the Intelligent Micro Lens Array headlights and one-piece blade taillights also feature the new darker Stealth Satin finish.

With Stealth Look, many exterior components that would otherwise be finished in platinum instead feature a dark Stealth Polished finish, reminiscent of the spéculaire black polishing technique employed in fine horology and jewelry. These include the front nose blade, C-pillar flags, and lower door and fascia trim. Elsewhere, Stealth Look adds black gloss and satin graphite accents to further enhance the sharpened appearance.

Stealth Look also includes unique wheel designs and finishes for each wheel size (wheel size availability depends on Air model variant):

• 21-inch Aero Sport Stealth wheels, with satin black wheel inserts
• 20-inch Aero Lite Stealth wheels, with satin black wheel inserts

Stealth Look can be paired with the full palette of exterior colors: Stellar White, Infinite Black, Cosmos Silver, Quantum Grey, and Zenith Red.

Stealth Look is priced at $6,000 USD ($7,500 CAD) and planned for introduction in Q1 2023.

[dreamingat30fps]

I'm not a fan of the exterior, the interior is really nice and I hope Tesla steps up their game on their interiors with all the new EVs coming out.

However at the same time they feel like vaporware to me. I mean can you realistically buy a Lucid or a Rivian? Can you even get a Ford Lightning? I like that Tesla has more and more competition, but it doesn't feel like they are really competing when you can't actually get any of them. I got my Model 3 in like 2 months. My friend just ordered a Y with ETA of August-Sept. Hopefully these will actually become widely available at some point and bring some real competition to Tesla.

[stein_325i]

Lucid Gravity: A Luxury Electric SUV with Breathtaking Performance and Seating for Up to Seven; Reservations Open in Early 2023.

Originally Posted by Lucid Motors

• Lucid's next force of nature: A luxury electric SUV like none other.
• Supercar levels of performance, seating for up to seven, and more range than any other EV (except for those from
• Lucid).
• Gravity, the first Lucid SUV, joins the Air sedan as a flagship model in Lucid's lineup of luxury performance
• electric vehicles.
• Further information to be released when reservations open in early 2023.

NEWARK, Calif., Nov. 15, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Lucid Group, Inc. (NASDAQ: LCID), setting new standards with the longest-range, fastest-charging
electric car on the market with the award-winning Lucid Air, today announced new details about Gravity, the first luxury electric SUV from Lucid.

"Gravity builds upon everything we have achieved thus far, driving further advancements of our in-house technology to create a luxury performance
SUV like none other," said Peter Rawlinson, CEO and CTO, Lucid Group. "Just as Lucid Air redefined the sedan category, so too will Gravity impact
the world of luxury SUVs, setting new benchmarks across the board."
Gravity will land in 2024, with reservations opening in early 2023. Lucid is currently finalizing the vehicle design and specifications, in parallel with
continuing the expansion of its AMP-1 factory in Casa Grande, AZ.

Gravity builds upon Lucid's core DNA of luxury, spaciousness, performance, and efficiency, setting itself apart from the competition with a previously
unattainable combination of supercar performance and seating for up to seven adults. Lucid Gravity also promises more range than any other EV on
the market – other than its stablemate, Lucid Air.

With the Lucid Space Concept employed with maximum effect, Gravity, can serve nearly any lifestyle or need, offering flexible seating configurations
for five, six, or seven adults, in two- and three-row seating configurations. It will also feature the next-generation Glass Cockpit high-resolution
displays, powered by the next generation of the intuitive and elegant Lucid UX software interface.

"I'm so thrilled with the results we are seeing with Lucid Gravity, sparing no opportunity to build on everything we learned with Lucid Air to create
something that warps the vehicle-class continuum," said Derek Jenkins, Senior Vice President, Design, Lucid Group. "It is both a supercar in disguise
and an SUV with flexible passenger and cargo space that seems impossibly big relative to the exterior size of the vehicle. And it does this all with
Lucid's distinctive post-luxury design, inspired by California."

Further information about the full Lucid Gravity lineup will be released in early 2023 when reservations open. Availability and timing for markets outside
the U.S. and Canada will be announced at a future date.

[stein_325i]

Lucid Air Touring and Air Pure Now Ready for the Road with Market-Leading Range and Aero; Air Sapphire Dominates Test Tracks on the Way to 2023 Introduction

Originally Posted by Lucid Motors

• Lucid Air Touring begins customer deliveries, features 620-horsepower dual-motor all-wheel-drive powertrain, 0-60 mph in
• 3.4 seconds, and an EPA-estimated 425 miles of range. It is Lucid's most efficient model yet, delivering 4.62 miles per
• kilowatt hour.
• Lucid Air Pure all-wheel drive arrives this year, with 0-60 mph in 3.8 seconds, and an EPA-estimated 410 miles of range.
• Rear-wheel drive Lucid Air Pure coming in 2023.
• Air Touring and Air Pure are the latest additions to the Air model line, which already includes the groundbreaking Air Grand
• Touring and Air Grand Touring Performance.
• Lucid Air is now the world's most aerodynamic production vehicle, with a landmark 0.197 coefficient of drag.
• Lucid Air Sapphire, the world's first luxury electric super-sports sedan, is undergoing final tuning on racetracks and public
• roads, with production to begin in the first half of 2023.
• Lucid is launching these models and sharing exciting news about the future of the brand with an online video at 10 AM
• PST. It is available here.

NEWARK, Calif., Nov. 15, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Lucid Group, Inc. (NASDAQ: LCID), setting new standards with the longest-range, fastest-charging
electric car on the market with the award-winning Lucid Air, today unveiled the production-specification Lucid Air Pure and Air Touring and delivered
the first Air Touring to a customer. Lucid also announced that the development of Air Pure and Air Touring has brought about key changes across the
entire model line that drops the coefficient of drag for Lucid Air models down to a landmark 0.197, making it the most aerodynamically efficient
production car on the market.

"Performance. Range. Luxury. Technology. Design. It's all here in the newly expanded Lucid Air model lineup as Air Pure and Air Touring – with their
remarkably spacious interiors – take their place alongside Air Grand Touring, Grand Touring Performance, and the recently announced Air Sapphire,"
said Peter Rawlinson, CEO and CTO, Lucid Group. "Air Touring matches the landmark 4.6 miles per kWh efficiency of the Grand Touring – albeit at a
more affordable price point – an important incremental step to making ultra-efficient EVs more attainable."

Lucid Air Pure: The Elemental Air
Air Pure is the elemental Air model, available in two configurations: It launches with the dual-motor, all-wheel drive version – delivering 480
horsepower – and will be followed next year with a single-motor, rear-wheel-drive variant. Production of the dual-motor, all-wheel-drive Air Pure begins
next month, with initial customer deliveries expected before the end of the year.

Built with Lucid's Long Range Battery Pack – Lucid's lightest, most-compact battery pack, featuring 18 modules compared to the 22 modules in the
Extended Range Pack – Air Pure elevates the Lucid Space Concept to turn vehicle packaging efficiency into an art form. Built with a lighter battery
pack with fewer modules, Air Pure is more efficient on the road, with an EPA-estimated 410 miles of range in all-wheel-drive form, while also delivering
more rear seat space and comfort. As a result, even with the more compact, sculpted pack and extraordinary rear seating comfort, Air Pure's range
still starts well above where other luxury EVs leave off. Furthermore, with Lucid's in-house designed Wunderbox technology standard with Air Pure,
high-speed charging delivers up to 200 miles of range in just 15 minutes.

Air Pure comes standard with the DreamDrive advanced driver assistance system, and can be upgraded to DreamDrive Pro, which includes 32
sensors that are all seamlessly integrated. Cameras, short- and long-range radars, an array of ultrasonic sensors are all augmented by a
high-resolution LIDAR that uses laser beams to measure distance from objects and works in a variety of adverse weather conditions. DreamDrive Pro
delivers an expanded suite of features today, like Surround View Monitoring, Blind Spot Display, and Highway Assist. Best of all, DreamDrive and
DreamDrive Pro are both future-ready with over-the-air software updates.

Lucid Air Pure: Elemental Design
Just as Air Pure embodies Lucid's approach to technical innovation, distilled into its purest form, so too does it epitomize Lucid's approach to exterior
design at its most elemental.

"Air Pure presents Lucid's strongest case yet for boldness through simplicity," said Derek Jenkins, Senior Vice President, Design, Lucid Group. "The
clean lines and sophisticated details are as important for aerodynamics and efficiency as they are beautiful."

Air Pure is the first Air model to come with an all-metal roof. It is made entirely of aluminum, which minimizes weight, and lends Air Pure a unique
personality – a perfect complement to the expansive Glass Canopy familiar from other Lucid Air variants.

A new paint color is also introduced to the Lucid family with Air Pure, called Fathom Blue. This color, inspired by the Pacific Ocean, is
multidimensional, with subtle, cool tones that shift with the light of day. The depth and sophistication make Fathom Blue an ideal finish to showcase the
long horizontal lines and curving forms of Air Pure's exterior.

Lucid's discerning eye for detail and craftsmanship is on display in the interior of Air Pure, where every last stitch, shade, and material is carefully
considered. It features the Mojave PurLuxe interior, which is crafted from a bespoke combination of a remarkably soft and durable leather alternative
and a unique and high-quality fabric called Dune. Inspired by midcentury modern furniture, Dune is made from 100% recycled woven textile. Overall,
these materials lend Air Pure a warm and timeless style all its own.

Lucid Air Touring: The Quintessential Air
Lucid Air Touring offers more power, greater range, and faster charging than anything else in its category, with an extraordinary fusion of performance
and interior space. It sits in the heart of the Lucid Air family and offers the most options and flexibility – allowing customers to create a version that
precisely fits their needs.

The dual-motor, all-wheel drive powertrain in Lucid Air Touring delivers 620 horsepower and can accelerate the vehicle from 0-60 mph in just 3.4
seconds. Along with this incredible performance comes exceptional range and efficiency: an EPA-estimated 425 miles. Built with Lucid's 18-module
Long-Range Battery Pack, Lucid Air Touring has the highest driving efficiency of any Lucid Air to date with 4.62 miles per kilowatt hour. Thanks to the
compact size of the Long-Range Battery Pack, Air Touring features even greater rear-seat leg and foot room.

The cabin of Lucid Air Touring takes luxury up a notch with even more exquisite materials and craftsmanship. It features seating surfaces wrapped in
Nappa full-grain leather sourced from Lucid's carbon-neutral leather partner, juxtaposed with recycled textiles and synthetics. Whenever possible,
Lucid sources sustainable materials and employs manufacturing practices to further reduce the environmental impact of our vehicles. Wood accents
are sustainably-harvested and have an open pore finish with minimal coating, so occupants can feel the authentic wood grain—another detail inspired
by midcentury modern furniture.

Air Touring will be available with a standard solid aluminum roof, as well as the optional Glass Canopy. The Glass Canopy gives an already spacious
vehicle an even more open and airy feel.

Lucid Air Sapphire: The World's First Luxury Electric Super-Sports Sedan Nears Production
Lucid Air Sapphire, the world's first luxury electric super-sports sedan, debuted this summer during Monterey Car Week. It is now undergoing final
stages of tuning and on racetracks and public roads throughout the country.
The latest performance estimates for Lucid Air Sapphire are 0-60 miles per hour in 1.89 seconds, 0-100 in 3.87 seconds, and a top speed of 205 miles
per hour. The complex torque-vectoring system of the twin rear-drive unit delivers extraordinary grip and turning capability, and Air Sapphire
development vehicles have recorded unofficial lap times at major racetracks that are significantly faster than many renowned hypercars.
Further information about Sapphire and the Lucid Air Sapphire can be found in the initial announcement here.

Information about the availability and timing of specific Air variants in markets outside the US and Canada will be announced at a later date.

[dizz81]

I actually like the look of the Lucid

[stein_325i]

The future for Lucid is starting to look a bit worrisome.

Lucid Offering Discounts On Some Cars, And That May Be A Sign Of Low Demand

Originally Posted by Carscoops

It has been well documented that the markets for both new and used vehicles are going bananas, but you might not be aware of that if you work at Lucid, and that could be a bad sign for the electric vehicle startup.

Barron’s reports that the automaker has already taken to offering incentives to entice people into buying their cars. The automaker has sent out an email to customers who had reserved a Lucid Air, but did not turn that into a firm order, offering them an up to 10 percent discount on a vehicle.

In the email, the discount was framed as a chance to reinstate their order for a Lucid Air Grand Touring at their “original legacy price of $139,000.” Following brand-wide price hikes in June, the base price of a Lucid Air Grand Touring is currently $154,000.

On December 1, meanwhile, Business Insider reported that Lucid was offering employees a discount of up to $18,000, if they took delivery by the end of the year. The automaker said that the discount would be credited to the workers’ paychecks, at the rate of $1,000 per month.

Lucid spokesperson Nat Lingo framed this as a way to honor a request from its team to help reward those “who were interested in driving a Lucid Air every day.” The automaker, though, was also offering 14 Lucid Airs for immediate sale on its website with a 2.81 percent annual finance rate for 72 months, much lower than the rate for the average car loan these days, and amounting to another discount.

Used Lucids, meanwhile, are being listed for 92 percent of their original price. While that may seem like a decent rate of depreciation in normal times, that’s currently a pretty poor resale value. Used Rivians are, by comparison, being listed for as much as 132 percent of their original value.

All of which points to underwhelming demand for Lucid’s superfast, super luxurious electric sedan. Although the automaker would not comment on demand, that these steps are being taken when it still has a backlog of 34,000 orders does not reflect well on the company.

Indeed, investors are feeling wary. Since September 13, the company share price has nearly halved, falling from a high of $16.63 to a low of $8.61 on December 6.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

The future for Lucid is starting to look a bit worrisome.

Lucid Offering Discounts On Some Cars, And That May Be A Sign Of Low Demand

That's too bad really.

Tesla prices are down as inventory surges and demand softens. There are several price/demand factors at play for all premium cars.

“Demand is a little harder than it would otherwise be,” Musk said.

Looking at the Tesla site in the "existing inventory" tab there are 37 model 3's within 200 miles of me right now, when typically there are between zero and 3, and they are all discounted ~3000-5000 each. All their other models are also all 10 times the normal stock levels and all are deeply discounted.

Porsche Taycan sales are also way down at -30% YoY, despite total sales being up 2%. Audi EV sales are down even more YoY.

Something is up with the industry. My guess is they are building more cars than people want, and the current market doesn't favor cars at these price points.

[M3WC]

It has been well documented that the markets for both new and used vehicles are going bananas, but you might not be aware of that if you work at Lucid, and that could be a bad sign for the electric vehicle startup.

Simply a false statement. Maybe 6-8months ago.

[Mr Friese]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

That's too bad really.

Tesla prices are down as inventory surges and demand softens. There are several price/demand factors at play for all premium cars.

“Demand is a little harder than it would otherwise be,” Musk said.

Looking at the Tesla site in the "existing inventory" tab there are 37 model 3's within 200 miles of me right now, when typically there are between zero and 3, and they are all discounted ~3000-5000 each. All their other models are also all 10 times the normal stock levels and all are deeply discounted.

Porsche Taycan sales are also way down at -30% YoY, despite total sales being up 2%. Audi EV sales are down even more YoY.

Something is up with the industry. My guess is they are building more cars than people want, and the current market doesn't favor cars at these price points.

I think most people are simply waiting for the new incentives to open up in 2023. Not mention the re-eligibility of Tesla, Chevy and Nissan for said incentives.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

I think most people are simply waiting for the new incentives to open up in 2023. Not mention the re-eligibility of Tesla, Chevy and Nissan for said incentives.

On the Tesla platform that would be true for the low end 3's and Y's, but not the high end 3's and Y's, or any of the S or X models. All are in surplus supply.

There is a price cap of $55K for cars and $80K for SUV's. Few EV's qualify.