[scalbert]

Originally Posted by grkm3

Why dont you try to get back at BMW and scan the ecu and find out exactly what there flaging and make a obd2 tool that we can hook up and clear the codes?

How sick would it be if we could just scan the ecu and clear it like a check engine light and then drive the car with no mods for a while and bring it right in.

Something to read and reset manufacturer specific codes will be available, at a reasonable cost, in the future. When that is for sure is unknown, but it will happen.

[BmwFanFL]

Shiv, all,

My point is mainly that there is no certainty in this arms race. You can be fairly (but not 100%) confident that current tunes are or are not detected. However, we can't be remotely confident regarding future ECU updates. You might get plenty of warning, as cars aren't serviced everyday, but, IMO (and apparently others with more specific knowledge), BMW could absolutely detect most tunes.

There's also a good chance countermeasures might be possible once the detection methods are reverse-engineered. Whether countermeasures are simple tweaks or major upgrades and what new performance envelope changes they entail can't be predicted.

However, I strongly believe that BMW has the ability to limit and/or detect tunes if they so choose. Whether or not they will put the energy into is another question. I believe they want to keep it reasonably in check, but not shut it down.

In a system this complex, there are always many approaches that wouldn't occur to someone not intimate with the ECU programming, such as learning the ECU by examining input/out signals, impedances, etc. Though an analogy, think of how often NASA is able to perform remote operations with a satellite or remote device that works around major hardware/software problems or damage. This is done by reprogramming very similar control units, and they often achieve results that were not contemplated in the original hardware and software (in light of the failure or changed mission goals)...

[BmwFanFL]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I really don't know how BMW could detect the Doomsday version of v3, either now or in the future. They would actually have to add redundant sensors which they aren't going to do. And if they do, we simply intercept those signals as well.

Shiv

Shiv,

I am not trying to single out yours or any other tune. I greatly respect the ability of the tuners for the N54 and know this is a very complex accomplishment.

In practice, at any given time, I don't disagree with you. However, each time BMW introduces a change, each tuner has to reevaluate, possibly make changes depending on how sophisticated the new detection. If the workaround involves more touch points, you also open up more detection points and make the tune more involved. Each iteration raises the complexity until one party gives up. With decades of engineering, systems and software experience, I don't believe there is a hard end, other than economics, to such a cycle -- to either party.

Most likely, and fortunate for tuners, this is much more valuable to tuners, motivating to owners, than it is in grand scheme at BMW (or any car maker). In other words, the tuners are somewhat more likely to continue the cycle and win by default. BMW moves on to other challenges, new models (over time), etc.

Best of luck always to you and your customers.