[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Which is why it is a pity that someone like Alfa Romeo that only makes driver centric cars are written off by buyers. Initially it was quality and now it is the quality must be fake…it’s to sad to see they have no path since even enthusiasts are now locked into their brands.

I think the brand just doesn't register in the minds of most people due to a complete absence of marketing. Even amongst enthusiasts, the lack of a mid-trim B58 type of engine limits sales, as does the perceived lack of quality due to the botched launch of their vehicles circa 2017. There's no excusing the quality issues at that time, even I was wary and waited for the refreshed model.

I love mine, handling is sports car-like and its beautiful design draws admiration even here in Los Angeles. But I too itch for more power and will move to Porsche or into a BMW M2 in the next two years (before the warranty expires).

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Agreed... I was just making a point. J.D. Power is notorious for swaying rankings based on automaker influence over them. Consumer reports, while not perfect, is more reputable. As for "owner satisfaction", I agree that most of BMWs drivers aren't enthusiasts - that's why they've been chasing the luxury/tech categories for many of their cars. And that's the reason why they sell the most cars in the luxury class, beating out Mercedes (if you don't count the Mercedes Sprinter vans). It just so happens that in addition to the mundane but luxurious tech filled cruisers, BMW still makes 500hp manual transmission cars to stir the soul of us few remaining enthusiasts.

I have heard this before but is there any legitimate proof? Seems like internet hearsay and opinions only. The fact that a highly biased hack like Scotty Kilmer slams them actually makes them more legit in my eyes. Anyways I do agree the Initial Quality Study is one of the least useful studies out there as some of the worst made vehicles ever cane make out fine for the first 90 days.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Wonder how much Stallantis paid JD Power to get that high in the rankings.

I found out that one way to make money in this country is create any sort of data aggregator / ranker and rank shit based on arbitraty qualities.

Your credibility isn't really relevant... notice wine reviews are all like 90-95 pts... except by who? bob's store lol... and then someone else has 100 points, by who... some other random guy?

if the marketing obfuscates everything, that's good enough to be honest... i heard yelp, glassdoor etc all follow the same business plan

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I have heard this before but is there any legitimate proof? Seems like internet hearsay and opinions only. The fact that a highly biased hack like Scotty Kilmer slams them actually makes them more legit in my eyes. Anyways I do agree the Initial Quality Study is one of the least useful studies out there as some of the worst made vehicles ever cane make out fine for the first 90 days.

I don't know that we'll ever have hard proof. I think their revenue generation methods and presentation of results provide a bit of insight to what could be happening. They're less an automotive industry expert and more a marketing tool. Automakers pay JD Power licensing fees to allow mention of their awards in marketing material - it just so happens that it's the top ranked automotive companies that end up paying these licensing fees. So a bit of chicken and egg going on - A company wouldn't pay licensing fees for the right to market themselves being at the bottom of the list afterall.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I think the brand just doesn't register in the minds of most people due to a complete absence of marketing. Even amongst enthusiasts, the lack of a mid-trim B58 type of engine limits sales, as does the perceived lack of quality due to the botched launch of their vehicles circa 2017. There's no excusing the quality issues at that time, even I was wary and waited for the refreshed model.

I love mine, handling is sports car-like and its beautiful design draws admiration even here in Los Angeles. But I too itch for more power and will move to Porsche or into a BMW M2 in the next two years (before the warranty expires).

I was never a big Alfa fan. But back in early 2020 my wife was looking to buy a compact SUV and we drove the X3, Macan, Q5 and Stelvio (a higher end trim but not the top). I was amazed at how close the Stelvio was to the Macan and the build quality was actually better than the X3 and Q5 in every way. We were looking in the mid to high $50K range. Interestingly, my wife ended up getting the Tesla Model Y Performance without driving it at all!

But I have been impressed with Alfa Romeo ever since. FWIW, the lower end BMW models tend to have the shortest ownership time based on this data…

BMW has done an incredible job of segmenting their customer base. They along with Tesla are probably the best companies in the car “business” right now. They understand the market better than anyone else. BMW aggressively markets to social media influencers and that seems to be working as well. I ended up renting an M2 on Turo only because of all the incredible reviews on YouTube 😊

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Redd

I think it's just cos Alfa owners are more used to problems and just live with it. ��

P/S: I own an Alfa lol

Your comment made me remember when Car and Driver published a comparo of the 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio vs. 2017 BMW M3, 2017 Cadillac ATS-V, 2017 Mercedes-AMG C63 S (February 2017). Car and Driver picked the Alpha. The magazine had this to say regarding the Alpha's reliability:

"Another reminder that we were in an Italian car hit us when we briefly warmed up the Giulia using the remote-start feature. After we entered the car and pushed the start button, the Alfa died. A quick restart illuminated the check-engine light and brought up two messages: “Service Electronic Throttle Control” and “Service Engine.” The Giulia still drove, but it wouldn’t move out of its low-boost advanced-efficiency mode. Fortunately, at the next stop, our always prepared assistant technical editor, David Beard, plugged in his OBD II scanner and cleared the codes. It cured the Alfa, but the fault returned when, in the interest of science, we tried remote-starting the car again. Alfa should include an OBD II scanner as standard equipment, and customers should consider themselves part of the development team."

Seriously WTF, do you think Car and Driver would EVER spot Cadillac* or BMW or Benz an effing OBDII scan and code reset? LFOL.

*especially Cadillac.

[HeelToeShift]

This does not surprise me. Alfa has been ranked very highly in Europe for quite some time. I recently nearly bought a Giulia Quad to replace my G80 M3, and in the extensive amount of research I have done, they are very reliable. Overwhelming majority of cars after the initial 2017 cars that had software issues have been solid and only better since then. Most of the owners who own them along with another German or Euro brand would tell me the Alfa was as reliable or more so and more fun to drive a well.
Just as a means of comparison, the 2017 Panamera models had 297 service bulletins while the Giulia quad had 11 (largely software).

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Your comment made me remember when Car and Driver published a comparo of the 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio vs. 2017 BMW M3, 2017 Cadillac ATS-V, 2017 Mercedes-AMG C63 S (February 2017). Car and Driver picked the Alpha. The magazine had this to say regarding the Alpha's reliability:

"Another reminder that we were in an Italian car hit us when we briefly warmed up the Giulia using the remote-start feature. After we entered the car and pushed the start button, the Alfa died. A quick restart illuminated the check-engine light and brought up two messages: “Service Electronic Throttle Control” and “Service Engine.” The Giulia still drove, but it wouldn’t move out of its low-boost advanced-efficiency mode. Fortunately, at the next stop, our always prepared assistant technical editor, David Beard, plugged in his OBD II scanner and cleared the codes. It cured the Alfa, but the fault returned when, in the interest of science, we tried remote-starting the car again. Alfa should include an OBD II scanner as standard equipment, and customers should consider themselves part of the development team."

Seriously WTF, do you think Car and Driver would EVER spot Cadillac* or BMW or Benz an effing OBDII scan and code reset? LFOL.

*especially Cadillac.

The Blackwing is a much underrated Cadillac. Gets no love either….

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by FCX5

The Blackwing is a much underrated Cadillac. Gets no love either….

It's got a tonne of love from automotive journalists. Unfortunately the general public doesn't care about Cadillac outside of Escalades.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

It's got a tonne of love from automotive journalists. Unfortunately the general public doesn't care about Cadillac outside of Escalades.

The general public doesn't care about cars... SUV's is where it's at.