[AmuroRay]

I spoke to Marty a few days ago and he made me aware that he has MILVs back in stock.

Just passing the news along for anyone who needs/wants them.

[jonwilli]

Anyone seen this? BDS testing does not show a benefit. I have MILVs but never did a before or after dyno. Not sure if anyone has done their own bench testing?

https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorsportuk

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by jonwilli

Anyone seen this? BDS testing does not show a benefit. I have MILVs but never did a before or after dyno. Not sure if anyone has done their own bench testing?

https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorsportuk

He sounds like a trash "tuner" Did he change the valvetronic tables at all? Doubtful- sounds like he threw them in and dynoed and saw nothing.

I had them on my N52 and now on my N55.

[jonwilli]

He does have a very good reputation in the UK Motorsports world and the findings are from bench testing. If I am honest I can not see how MILVs don't improve valve lift and duration as you are dropping the lever closer to the valve. But the Valvetronic is a complicated design so hard to say for certain. I never got my N52 dyno'd before and after my MILVs installation so can't confirm or deny what he is saying.

[The Nightman]

Cool, didn't realize Bruno started playing with N52s. He seems to know his stuff, at least based on his appearances on Car Throttle... His posts about the N52 are interesting, and he posts dyno graphs for most updates:

Jul 13: V1 tune for N52B30: 251 to 264bhp and 233 to 245tq
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...wvabYpnjmQmkJl

Jul 14: N54 intake manifold on N52 - "torque curve is worse everywhere only really improoves on the last 500rpm, this means avg power would actually be worse"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...1dzARpK3RMvNrl

Aug 19: testing their own intake, no gains over stock eurobox
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...C88xyKGZRcdyUl

Sep 1: 280bhp (238whp) with their valvetronic arms (?), intake elbow and tune
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...NR9KBhfh95Xnkl

Sep 13: finished their own intake (with ITG), 6% more air flow than stock eurobox with stock filter claimed. No dyno (yet?)
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...9VwjTVkWUJbvUl

Sep 14: MILVs - "doesn't align with our vision for our tunes"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...gwTZ19HMpCWNbl

A little more information in the comments, but Bruno doesn't really offer any details to support his position ie "trust me bro"

"Jon Williams: There's been lots of chat behind the scenes on MILVs since you started testing and found the 'fake' MILVs added no lift. I know you have recently tested some of Marty's MILVs from BimmerMILVs. The principle of the MILVs makes sense, drop the intermediate support and you effectively push the intermediate lever lower pushing the valve down more. The complication is all parts are floating between cam and eccentric shaft and HVA/valve support and any change could change the geometry of how they all interact.

I believe you found that Martys MILVs do push the intermediate lever down but their movement pushes the HVA down not the valve and hence valve lift is basically the same between OEM and modified part. I guess my question is, that proves the theory that pushing the support down, pushes the intermediate lever down, could it be that with the HVA pressurised in a non static bench test the Marty MILVs would actually cause the valve to open further rather than push the HVA down? I guess it would depend on what force the oil pressure exerts on the HVA, mechanical advantage of the lever and the spring rate of the intake valve."

"BDS Motorsport: look at it better and it doesn’t make sense as what opens the valve on these is not a motion downwards…"

"Jon Williams: I don't follow? To open the valve it must move down against the valve spring. To move the valve down a downwards force has to be applied, that's Newtons Laws. The downward force is from the intermediate lever which is acted upon by the cam?"

No further discussion...

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by The Nightman

Cool, didn't realize Bruno started playing with N52s. He seems to know his stuff, at least based on his appearances on Car Throttle... His posts about the N52 are interesting, and he posts dyno graphs for most updates:

Jul 13: V1 tune for N52B30: 251 to 264bhp and 233 to 245tq
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...wvabYpnjmQmkJl

Jul 14: N54 intake manifold on N52 - "torque curve is worse everywhere only really improoves on the last 500rpm, this means avg power would actually be worse"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...1dzARpK3RMvNrl

Aug 19: testing their own intake, no gains over stock eurobox
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...C88xyKGZRcdyUl

Sep 1: 280bhp (238whp) with their valvetronic arms (?), intake elbow and tune
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...NR9KBhfh95Xnkl

Sep 13: finished their own intake (with ITG), 6% more air flow than stock eurobox with stock filter claimed. No dyno (yet?)
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...9VwjTVkWUJbvUl

Sep 14: MILVs - "doesn't align with our vision for our tunes"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...gwTZ19HMpCWNbl

A little more information in the comments, but Bruno doesn't really offer any details to support his position ie "trust me bro"

"Jon Williams: There's been lots of chat behind the scenes on MILVs since you started testing and found the 'fake' MILVs added no lift. I know you have recently tested some of Marty's MILVs from BimmerMILVs. The principle of the MILVs makes sense, drop the intermediate support and you effectively push the intermediate lever lower pushing the valve down more. The complication is all parts are floating between cam and eccentric shaft and HVA/valve support and any change could change the geometry of how they all interact.

I believe you found that Martys MILVs do push the intermediate lever down but their movement pushes the HVA down not the valve and hence valve lift is basically the same between OEM and modified part. I guess my question is, that proves the theory that pushing the support down, pushes the intermediate lever down, could it be that with the HVA pressurised in a non static bench test the Marty MILVs would actually cause the valve to open further rather than push the HVA down? I guess it would depend on what force the oil pressure exerts on the HVA, mechanical advantage of the lever and the spring rate of the intake valve."

"BDS Motorsport: look at it better and it doesn’t make sense as what opens the valve on these is not a motion downwards…"

"Jon Williams: I don't follow? To open the valve it must move down against the valve spring. To move the valve down a downwards force has to be applied, that's Newtons Laws. The downward force is from the intermediate lever which is acted upon by the cam?"

No further discussion...

I read that too

[jonwilli]

Yes that was me who posted the question to BDS and I have had a private message from Bruno back, not a reply on the public thread. If I am honest the message did not fully explain why HVA pressure would not impact the valve lift, however, it looks like Marty might be testing the MILVs with the same parameters as BDS to either prove or disprove the testing.

To be open and honest I have MILVs fitted but never tested before and after. I thought they improved mid range torque from my butt dyno but the changes with NA mods are generally so small that is not an accurate measure! I would argue some of the increases are even hard to prove with dyno runs, is a 5hp increase dyno tolerance or real gains/losses.

Anyhow the principle of MILVs makes complete sense to me as an engineer. However, I do concede that the Valvetronic is a moving feast, geometry never stays constant so hard to be certain without bench testing. Marty did this and is a great guy who would not maliciously mislead anyone.

Flip side BDS have a great reputation from what I can tell, Bruno is a friendly guy who I think genuinely wants to get as much power out of the N52 as possible. As you say he comes across well in the YT videos he has been on in the last couple of years.

I will wait and see how this all unravels.

[Leucosticte]

Originally Posted by The Nightman

Cool, didn't realize Bruno started playing with N52s. He seems to know his stuff, at least based on his appearances on Car Throttle... His posts about the N52 are interesting, and he posts dyno graphs for most updates:

Jul 13: V1 tune for N52B30: 251 to 264bhp and 233 to 245tq
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...wvabYpnjmQmkJl

Jul 14: N54 intake manifold on N52 - "torque curve is worse everywhere only really improoves on the last 500rpm, this means avg power would actually be worse"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...1dzARpK3RMvNrl

Aug 19: testing their own intake, no gains over stock eurobox
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...C88xyKGZRcdyUl

Sep 1: 280bhp (238whp) with their valvetronic arms (?), intake elbow and tune
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...NR9KBhfh95Xnkl

Sep 13: finished their own intake (with ITG), 6% more air flow than stock eurobox with stock filter claimed. No dyno (yet?)
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...9VwjTVkWUJbvUl

Sep 14: MILVs - "doesn't align with our vision for our tunes"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...gwTZ19HMpCWNbl

A little more information in the comments, but Bruno doesn't really offer any details to support his position ie "trust me bro"

"Jon Williams: There's been lots of chat behind the scenes on MILVs since you started testing and found the 'fake' MILVs added no lift. I know you have recently tested some of Marty's MILVs from BimmerMILVs. The principle of the MILVs makes sense, drop the intermediate support and you effectively push the intermediate lever lower pushing the valve down more. The complication is all parts are floating between cam and eccentric shaft and HVA/valve support and any change could change the geometry of how they all interact.

I believe you found that Martys MILVs do push the intermediate lever down but their movement pushes the HVA down not the valve and hence valve lift is basically the same between OEM and modified part. I guess my question is, that proves the theory that pushing the support down, pushes the intermediate lever down, could it be that with the HVA pressurised in a non static bench test the Marty MILVs would actually cause the valve to open further rather than push the HVA down? I guess it would depend on what force the oil pressure exerts on the HVA, mechanical advantage of the lever and the spring rate of the intake valve."

"BDS Motorsport: look at it better and it doesn’t make sense as what opens the valve on these is not a motion downwards…"

"Jon Williams: I don't follow? To open the valve it must move down against the valve spring. To move the valve down a downwards force has to be applied, that's Newtons Laws. The downward force is from the intermediate lever which is acted upon by the cam?"

No further discussion...

Well it seems like instead of elaborating he took the post down instead.

[The Nightman]

Originally Posted by jonwilli

Yes that was me who posted the question to BDS and I have had a private message from Bruno back, not a reply on the public thread. If I am honest the message did not fully explain why HVA pressure would not impact the valve lift, however, it looks like Marty might be testing the MILVs with the same parameters as BDS to either prove or disprove the testing.

To be open and honest I have MILVs fitted but never tested before and after. I thought they improved mid range torque from my butt dyno but the changes with NA mods are generally so small that is not an accurate measure! I would argue some of the increases are even hard to prove with dyno runs, is a 5hp increase dyno tolerance or real gains/losses.

Anyhow the principle of MILVs makes complete sense to me as an engineer. However, I do concede that the Valvetronic is a moving feast, geometry never stays constant so hard to be certain without bench testing. Marty did this and is a great guy who would not maliciously mislead anyone.

Flip side BDS have a great reputation from what I can tell, Bruno is a friendly guy who I think genuinely wants to get as much power out of the N52 as possible. As you say he comes across well in the YT videos he has been on in the last couple of years.

I will wait and see how this all unravels.

I won't even pretend to understand how the MILVs interact with the Valvetronic system, but I'm inclined to believe that Bruno either misunderstood or his testing was not representative of how the system works in reality. Especially since he removed the post now... I think the MILVs are more or less proven by now, and that it is understood that they don't make a difference without a tune.

Do you have any information about their "valvetronic arms" mentioned in a couple posts? I'm also curious about the "fake" MILVs being sold by someone out of London, which apparently don't work?

[jonwilli]

I think the fake MILVs were being sold by a guy through Facebook and maybe Instagram, I forget his username. He claims he 3D scanned the BimmerMILVs and got them machined the same. I think BDS testing found the quality and finish of the BimmerMILVs superior to the fakes but ultimately their testing concluded on a UK spec 130i engine they did not add lift. There is a theory that the US engine maps come with less Valvetronic lift as standard based on the roller marks on used supports. I guess to confirm that a tuner would need to look at a UK 130i tune and a US 328i tune

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by dindf

Does the person you mentioned selling fake milvs have a name on FB? I should have seen the comments about BDS on N52-FB the day before yesterday. Yes, they did not explain how MILVS is useless and did not provide data or theory. As a person who has purchased milvs, he will have questions, ( My MILVS was purchased from Saad Ahmed on FB) The tunes are provided by https://www.chaoscalibrations.com/. Since I haven’t installed it yet, I also wrote to rjahl from E90 post and he told me that MILVS is real. It works, rjahl is also a member of the community, and I trust his knowledge and theories.

The following is the discussion group of FB-n52. This friend, Saad, sells MILVS here. I got a set. I think the workmanship is very fine. I think you are not saying that this person is selling fake MILVS, right?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/n52b...ibextid=W9rl1R

I know Marty, he developed and makes the MILVS, he did tell me to beware of the fakes.

If I had to guess, those should be the fakes.

[The Nightman]

Originally Posted by dindf

Does the person you mentioned selling fake milvs have a name on FB? I should have seen the comments about BDS on N52-FB the day before yesterday. Yes, they did not explain how MILVS is useless and did not provide data or theory. As a person who has purchased milvs, he will have questions, ( My MILVS was purchased from Saad Ahmed on FB) The tunes are provided by https://www.chaoscalibrations.com/. Since I haven’t installed it yet, I also wrote to rjahl from E90 post and he told me that MILVS is real. It works, rjahl is also a member of the community, and I trust his knowledge and theories.

The following is the discussion group of FB-n52. This friend, Saad, sells MILVS here. I got a set. I think the workmanship is very fine. I think you are not saying that this person is selling fake MILVS, right?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/n52b...ibextid=W9rl1R

Based on the comments here, those are indeed the "fake" MILVS (or perhaps replica is more accurate?)



"bimmermilvs
2w
@saadahmed95 You admitted you outright copied my parts. I have your email where you admit it. And they are not 100% identical. Your counterfeit parts are just that and they don’t work."

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by dindf

Does the person you mentioned selling fake milvs have a name on FB? I should have seen the comments about BDS on N52-FB the day before yesterday. Yes, they did not explain how MILVS is useless and did not provide data or theory. As a person who has purchased milvs, he will have questions, ( My MILVS was purchased from Saad Ahmed on FB) The tunes are provided by https://www.chaoscalibrations.com/. Since I haven’t installed it yet, I also wrote to rjahl from E90 post and he told me that MILVS is real. It works, rjahl is also a member of the community, and I trust his knowledge and theories.

The following is the discussion group of FB-n52. This friend, Saad, sells MILVS here. I got a set. I think the workmanship is very fine. I think you are not saying that this person is selling fake MILVS, right?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/n52b...ibextid=W9rl1R

Sad that those guys got suckered into buying fakes - but why would you even chance it? Marty’s has been proven to work, and I don’t know who this guy is - but it seems scummy to even copy someone work to sell them for ‘cheaper?’ - it’s only $300usd for used ones - plus $40 back. It’s an absolute deal.

As for this tuner - UK/EU tuners have always and will always be inferior to US based tuners. Evolve, despite being located in the EU - was trash at tuning the N52, even though they got the 265hp 130i variants, and every other tuner I’ve seen is just average at best. They all sell the same canned tune variant anyhow.

Marty actually remapped the entire valvetronic table so it can be used with the MILVS. Just putting Max lift at 11mm likely won’t work which is why these guys are speaking nonsese.

For what it’s worth, Hassmachine mapped all the standard times - he has MILVS and hey work for him (he custom tuned it himself) Bob from STAGEFP also tested them on a 330i - again? Gains were shown.

Being a bad tuner and using trash parts doesn’t mean the real thing doesn’t work

[jonwilli]

Originally Posted by dindf

Does the person you mentioned selling fake milvs have a name on FB? I should have seen the comments about BDS on N52-FB the day before yesterday. Yes, they did not explain how MILVS is useless and did not provide data or theory. As a person who has purchased milvs, he will have questions, ( My MILVS was purchased from Saad Ahmed on FB) The tunes are provided by https://www.chaoscalibrations.com/. Since I haven’t installed it yet, I also wrote to rjahl from E90 post and he told me that MILVS is real. It works, rjahl is also a member of the community, and I trust his knowledge and theories.

The following is the discussion group of FB-n52. This friend, Saad, sells MILVS here. I got a set. I think the workmanship is very fine. I think you are not saying that this person is selling fake MILVS, right?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/n52b...ibextid=W9rl1R

Yes those are the fakes/copies that are not identical to the BimmerMILVs. I believe its always best to buy direct from BimmerMILVs if you want to guarantee they are 'originals'. I would ask to return and get your money back.

[Bufalo]

I couldn't imagine wanting to go through the process of uninstalling some ineffective copies and then doing the job AGAIN on the good ones. All I know is that the legit MartyMILVS in my 328 were quite an improvement when tuned properly.

[chilledn52]

Support the Cobra and buy Marty’s BimmerMILVS. He’s the one who did all the research and hard work. I got mine on the way happy to see them come back in stock recently

[W37V]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Sad that those guys got suckered into buying fakes - but why would you even chance it? Marty’s has been proven to work, and I don’t know who this guy is - but it seems scummy to even copy someone work to sell them for ‘cheaper?’ - it’s only $300usd for used ones - plus $40 back. It’s an absolute deal.

As for this tuner - UK/EU tuners have always and will always be inferior to US based tuners. Evolve, despite being located in the EU - was trash at tuning the N52, even though they got the 265hp 130i variants, and every other tuner I’ve seen is just average at best. They all sell the same canned tune variant anyhow.

Marty actually remapped the entire valvetronic table so it can be used with the MILVS. Just putting Max lift at 11mm likely won’t work which is why these guys are speaking nonsese.

For what it’s worth, Hassmachine mapped all the standard times - he has MILVS and hey work for him (he custom tuned it himself) Bob from STAGEFP also tested them on a 330i - again? Gains were shown.

Being a bad tuner and using trash parts doesn’t mean the real thing doesn’t work

AXIOM is that you?

Regarding rest of the thread.
WTF.... I come back to these forms after serious hibernation and find shitposting about how MILVS don't work. LOL! They do not work without proper tune. Difference between modified and not modified supports is so slight that it is almost impossible to notice it as I think the difference is few mm of not less. There will be absolutely no difference when running MILVS on stock tune or any other tune that is not accounting for it. Once you get a proper tune, you will definitely feel the difference. I've had MILVS on my car almost since they came out (sometime in 2018) and never looked back.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by W37V

AXIOM is that you?

Regarding rest of the thread.
WTF.... I come back to these forms after serious hibernation and find shitposting about how MILVS don't work. LOL! They do not work without proper tune. Difference between modified and not modified supports is so slight that it is almost impossible to notice it as I think the difference is few mm of not less. There will be absolutely no difference when running MILVS on stock tune or any other tune that is not accounting for it. Once you get a proper tune, you will definitely feel the difference. I've had MILVS on my car almost since they came out (sometime in 2018) and never looked back.

It’s me, long time no see

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by The Nightman

Cool, didn't realize Bruno started playing with N52s. He seems to know his stuff, at least based on his appearances on Car Throttle... His posts about the N52 are interesting, and he posts dyno graphs for most updates:

Jul 13: V1 tune for N52B30: 251 to 264bhp and 233 to 245tq
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...wvabYpnjmQmkJl

Jul 14: N54 intake manifold on N52 - "torque curve is worse everywhere only really improoves on the last 500rpm, this means avg power would actually be worse"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...1dzARpK3RMvNrl

Aug 19: testing their own intake, no gains over stock eurobox
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...C88xyKGZRcdyUl

Sep 1: 280bhp (238whp) with their valvetronic arms (?), intake elbow and tune
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...NR9KBhfh95Xnkl

Sep 13: finished their own intake (with ITG), 6% more air flow than stock eurobox with stock filter claimed. No dyno (yet?)
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...9VwjTVkWUJbvUl

Sep 14: MILVs - "doesn't align with our vision for our tunes"
https://www.facebook.com/bdsmotorspo...gwTZ19HMpCWNbl

A little more information in the comments, but Bruno doesn't really offer any details to support his position ie "trust me bro"

"Jon Williams: There's been lots of chat behind the scenes on MILVs since you started testing and found the 'fake' MILVs added no lift. I know you have recently tested some of Marty's MILVs from BimmerMILVs. The principle of the MILVs makes sense, drop the intermediate support and you effectively push the intermediate lever lower pushing the valve down more. The complication is all parts are floating between cam and eccentric shaft and HVA/valve support and any change could change the geometry of how they all interact.

I believe you found that Martys MILVs do push the intermediate lever down but their movement pushes the HVA down not the valve and hence valve lift is basically the same between OEM and modified part. I guess my question is, that proves the theory that pushing the support down, pushes the intermediate lever down, could it be that with the HVA pressurised in a non static bench test the Marty MILVs would actually cause the valve to open further rather than push the HVA down? I guess it would depend on what force the oil pressure exerts on the HVA, mechanical advantage of the lever and the spring rate of the intake valve."

"BDS Motorsport: look at it better and it doesn’t make sense as what opens the valve on these is not a motion downwards…"

"Jon Williams: I don't follow? To open the valve it must move down against the valve spring. To move the valve down a downwards force has to be applied, that's Newtons Laws. The downward force is from the intermediate lever which is acted upon by the cam?"

No further discussion...

Read through again, it looks like they are claiming they have their own solution which is a replacement of the "valvetronic arm" or maybe the eccentric cam itself.

Claimed 20whp with the tune. Hmm...It should be said their tune was the same end result BPC/Stage FP got on the MILVs with a tune - 238WHP?

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...4#post21645184

So, here are the final results of the valvetronic lift mod, *first revision*.

2006 Manual 330i N52 with 3 stage intake
Mods:
BMW performance intake
BMW performance Exhaust
BPC Tune

Red: Before tune adjustment after installing the mod
Blue: Tune adjustments to only the valvetronic maps