[Shatteredpixelz]

Hi all, as per the title suggests, I'm seeing some weird behavior with the timing of my car on an E30 map and not really sure what to make of it. Also the car has a very strange vibration under load, can't tell what that is either. However, please see the logs below for the timing corrections. (All three logs were taken about 5 minutes apart from each other)


First log is clean: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65b0...6e2a22a732df6b

Second log has some corrections on 2: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65b0...54c076401e3089

and the last log has corrections on 3 that go almost to 6: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65b0...54c076401e30a6

I'm not sure what the problem is for the vibrations or the corrections.
Mods: VRSF high flow downpipe, BMS intake, and active autowerke charge pipe and intercooler.

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by Shatteredpixelz

Hi all, as per the title suggests, I'm seeing some weird behavior with the timing of my car on an E30 map and not really sure what to make of it. Also the car has a very strange vibration under load, can't tell what that is either. However, please see the logs below for the timing corrections. (All three logs were taken about 5 minutes apart from each other)


First log is clean: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65b0...6e2a22a732df6b

Second log has some corrections on 2: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65b0...54c076401e3089

and the last log has corrections on 3 that go almost to 6: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65b0...54c076401e30a6

I'm not sure what the problem is for the vibrations or the corrections.
Mods: VRSF high flow downpipe, BMS intake, and active autowerke charge pipe and intercooler.

How are you measuring your e85? You're likely running too much ethanol. Your HPFP is not supplying enough fuel. Its 400-500 PSI below target on every log.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by NEWTRON

How are you measuring your e85? You're likely running too much ethanol. Your HPFP is not supplying enough fuel. Its 400-500 PSI below target on every log.

+1. The timing looks normal, as does boost. HPFP dips is what stands out.

[Shatteredpixelz]

Originally Posted by NEWTRON

How are you measuring your e85? You're likely running too much ethanol. Your HPFP is not supplying enough fuel. Its 400-500 PSI below target on every log.

I'm measuring my E85 using an app and getting the exact remaining fuel in the tank from bimmerlink.

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

+1. The timing looks normal, as does boost. HPFP dips is what stands out.

even when it pulls 6 deg of timing on 3 in one of the logs?


Thanks again for the help guys, I do appreciate it

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Shatteredpixelz

I'm measuring my E85 using an app and getting the exact remaining fuel in the tank from bimmerlink.



even when it pulls 6 deg of timing on 3 in one of the logs?


Thanks again for the help guys, I do appreciate it

Measuring the E% in the tank using an app? or using an app to calculate how much E85 and Pump gas to add based on fuel remaining? If the latter, do you know the E% of what is coming out of the pump, or what E% so you assume for the E85?

If you get misc. and different timing corrections on varying cylinders in different logs its generally normal. If you ALWAYS had high corrections on the same cylinder in multiple logs, that suggests and issue with that cylinder. If you always have timing corrections across multiple cylinders at the same time in several logs, that suggests a fuel quality issue (or something else affecting all cylinders at once). But if its just some corrections here and there and no pattern that is generally normal.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

[Shatteredpixelz]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Measuring the E% in the tank using an app? or using an app to calculate how much E85 and Pump gas to add based on fuel remaining? If the latter, do you know the E% of what is coming out of the pump, or what E% so you assume for the E85?

Propel stations advertise an 80% yearly average so I just target E35 in the app factors.



If you get misc. and different timing corrections on varying cylinders in different logs its generally normal. If you ALWAYS had high corrections on the same cylinder in multiple logs, that suggests and issue with that cylinder. If you always have timing corrections across multiple cylinders at the same time in several logs, that suggests a fuel quality issue (or something else affecting all cylinders at once). But if its just some corrections here and there and no pattern that is generally normal.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

Gotcha gotcha, yeah typically the timing corrections stay within 1-3 per cyl per pull but occasionally I'll see something spike like that. Glad to hear that's pretty typical though on an OTS tune. I'll try the ACN91 tune with like a gallon of E85 next fill up instead to see if I can get the corrections to zero since this is my daily and I need it to stay somewhat reliable lol

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Shatteredpixelz

Gotcha gotcha, yeah typically the timing corrections stay within 1-3 per cyl per pull but occasionally I'll see something spike like that. Glad to hear that's pretty typical though on an OTS tune. I'll try the ACN91 tune with like a gallon of E85 next fill up instead to see if I can get the corrections to zero since this is my daily and I need it to stay somewhat reliable lol

I would just back your target E% down to 25 and see if the HPFP pressure holds and look at timing corrections. The BM3 map operates near HPFP limit. As long as you hold pressure and dont have knock or excessive corrections 25% should be fine.

I would do that over going to the 91 map. I tried 91 maps for a while with and without E85 and CA fuel quality is just terrible so i could never get good timing and the car made WAY less power on 91 maps.

Also, dont pursue zero timing corrections. You'll basically never get there with CA 91 fuel and its not a necessary thing.

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by Shatteredpixelz

Gotcha gotcha, yeah typically the timing corrections stay within 1-3 per cyl per pull but occasionally I'll see something spike like that. Glad to hear that's pretty typical though on an OTS tune. I'll try the ACN91 tune with like a gallon of E85 next fill up instead to see if I can get the corrections to zero since this is my daily and I need it to stay somewhat reliable lol

I wouldn't worry about the corrections too much. I see similar corrections and I daily my car on e50 and a PS2. You need to measure the E85 from the pump or get a sensor. It can range from 50%-85% and I've never seen it higher that 82% in Socal. So unless you have a sensor or test at the pump regularly you're always going to be guessing.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by NEWTRON

I wouldn't worry about the corrections too much. I see similar corrections and I daily my car on e50 and a PS2. You need to measure the E85 from the pump or get a sensor. It can range from 50%-85% and I've never seen it higher that 82% in Socal. So unless you have a sensor or test at the pump regularly you're always going to be guessing.

True, but i would also note that him assuming its 85% should mean he never underestimates the E% coming from the pump, so he would in theory never overshoot his target %. So i think his estimate is conservative but HPFP is still not keeping so, so would test lowering the target.

Pearson fuels in Calif gives me 85% within whatever margin of error you consider for the test kits

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

True, but i would also note that him assuming its 85% should mean he never underestimates the E% coming from the pump, so he would in theory never overshoot his target %. So i think his estimate is conservative but HPFP is still not keeping so, so would test lowering the target.

Pearson fuels in Calif gives me 85% within whatever margin of error you consider for the test kits

I agree. Just wanted to point out that it's a guessing game if you don't test it. I stopped overthinking it when I got the flex sensor. I just pump 8.25 gals of e85 now and get E50-E55. I try to stick with Pearson, they're the most consistent. 76 is good too.

[Shatteredpixelz]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I would just back your target E% down to 25 and see if the HPFP pressure holds and look at timing corrections. The BM3 map operates near HPFP limit. As long as you hold pressure and dont have knock or excessive corrections 25% should be fine.

I would do that over going to the 91 map. I tried 91 maps for a while with and without E85 and CA fuel quality is just terrible so i could never get good timing and the car made WAY less power on 91 maps.

Also, dont pursue zero timing corrections. You'll basically never get there with CA 91 fuel and its not a necessary thing.

Could you define what excessive corrections would look like? I've poked around the forums and some people freak out when anything close to 6 happens and others not so much. I understand what you're saying about the corrections across all cylinders so at least the inconsistency isn't indicating problems.

[Shatteredpixelz]

Originally Posted by NEWTRON

I agree. Just wanted to point out that it's a guessing game if you don't test it. I stopped overthinking it when I got the flex sensor. I just pump 8.25 gals of e85 now and get E50-E55. I try to stick with Pearson, they're the most consistent. 76 is good too.

The end goal is hpfp + flex fuel sensor, but given I'm in California the thought of swapping my hpfp every other year sounds heinous. If mine goes out I'll probably swap in a b58 gen 1 pump.

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by Shatteredpixelz

The end goal is hpfp + flex fuel sensor, but given I'm in California the thought of swapping my hpfp every other year sounds heinous. If mine goes out I'll probably swap in a b58 gen 1 pump.

I'm in CA too. Its really not that bad if you're comfortable working on cars. I got my car smog ready in a couple of hours. Once for a state ref and again for smog.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Shatteredpixelz

Could you define what excessive corrections would look like? I've poked around the forums and some people freak out when anything close to 6 happens and others not so much. I understand what you're saying about the corrections across all cylinders so at least the inconsistency isn't indicating problems.

I would define excessive more in terms of the pattern than the magnitude on any one cylinder. So on other words:

- Excessive could be consistent, repeated timing corrections on ALL cylinders in multiple different logs. They could be relatively small (2-3 deg), but if its always happening on all cylinders could mean fuel octane isnt enough

- Excessive could also be consistent, repeated timing corrections on the same cylinder(s) in multiple different logs. In this case suggests an issue with that cylinder(s)

So if one cylinder randomly spikes to -6 in a log i wouldnt really worry about that. Could be a fluke.

Originally Posted by Shatteredpixelz

The end goal is hpfp + flex fuel sensor, but given I'm in California the thought of swapping my hpfp every other year sounds heinous. If mine goes out I'll probably swap in a b58 gen 1 pump.

Every once in a while i consider doing HPFP and whatnot but i eventually convince myself its not worth the hassle to have to swap every 2 years so i keep the car FBO with stock HPFP. Maybe in 2025 after i smog again ill consider it. I also toy with other ideas every once in a while like meth or the Fogr that you can disable and run on stock tune.