[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by murderspice

I believe bmw peaked with the f87.

ahhhh okay, you believe peak BMW is the one you own... something something chris harris, owners protecting residuals etc

i won't change your mind but i can attest to the fact that the G87 is indeed a very special car, which is different from being a very GOOD car. after owning many special cars, and driving many more. my B8 S4 was a GOOD car, but not special. my W220 S55 AMG, was a very SPECIAL car, but not a very good one. the g87 is both, so far at least.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

ahhhh okay, you believe peak BMW is the one you own...

i can attest to the fact that the G87 is indeed a very special car

No disrespect, just pointing it out.

Do you own a g87?

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by murderspice

No disrespect, just pointing it out.

Do you own a g87?

none taken, i just reject your framework outright, so you aren't really pointing anything out. it's OK to advocate for your own interests, but to do so nakedly is going to result in people noticing right off the bat lol. the OG F87 is "special" but i found it far from "peak BMW" as the ride was horrendous and it always looked very feminine to me.

IMHO peak BMW is the E39 M5. but we can argue about that from now until eternity. i think the G87 fits the mold better than the F87 ever did

and of course i own a G87, this is a G87 forum. perhaps this forum isnt special enough for you either, or you are here for another reason... back to protecting residuals

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

IMHO peak BMW is the E39 M5. but we can argue about that from now until eternity. i think the G87 fits the mold better than the F87 ever did

On the whole, you don't think bmws got better since the e39?

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by murderspice

On the whole, you don't think bmws got better since the e39?

again we have an issue with definitions- on the whole, did BMWs get better:

• as cars?
• as a representation of "peak BMW"?
• as "M cars"?

as cars: absolutely. but so did all cars.

as representations of "peak BMW": to me personally, NO.. the styling, sizing, and interior to me are "peak BMW".

as "M cars": again also NO. IMHO has all the hallmarks of an M car displayed to the ///maximum. perfect ride handling balance, daily drive-ability, styling etc.

in full disclosure i have not driven every single M car. but of those i have, thats my answer.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

It's all about supply and demand. Which (what I find crazy too), affects multiple demographics in a very similar way.
Take for instance the CTR, at $45K that's one demographic. Now look at the GT3RS, at $145K it's a completely different demographic. Both apparently are willing to spend substantially more than MSRP for the car as both Honda and Porsche know that scarcity creates demand. Which is a different approach to BMW that says just build the cars and people will buy them. I would guess the latter makes far more money than the former.

You need to change that first one to a two for the GT3RS (145k -> 245k) starting. A base 911 starts at $114k, but easy to option it up to $150k.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by robopp

You need to change that first one to a two for the GT3RS (145k -> 245k) starting. A base 911 starts at $114k, but easy to option it up to $150k.

Good God. Well my point still stands.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

again we have an issue with definitions- on the whole, did BMWs get better:

• as cars?
• as a representation of "peak BMW"?
• as "M cars"?

as cars: absolutely. but so did all cars.

as representations of "peak BMW": to me personally, NO.. the styling, sizing, and interior to me are "peak BMW".

as "M cars": again also NO. IMHO has all the hallmarks of an M car displayed to the ///maximum. perfect ride handling balance, daily drive-ability, styling etc.

in full disclosure i have not driven every single M car. but of those i have, thats my answer.

Sounds like you wanted an e39 instead.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by murderspice

Sounds like you wanted an e39 instead.

have you ever attempted to daily a 20+ year old german sports car? i have.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Did anyone else see that the M2 ran in just 3rd gear save the two downshifts at the slow two corners to 2nd? I know that track was all about handling, but jeez, just the one-gear use? This is why I like autos and the 8,9,10 gear set ups.

You know, I sold my manual Camaro SS 1LE with the superb Tremec 6 speed, and was agonizing over manual vs auto for the M2. I drove both, and liked both. In the end I chose the ZF8 because of the remote start, wireless charging in the proper location with digital smart key, etc that are not available on the manual.

I thought I would regret it, but so far I'm loving that ZF8 and the fact that you get to shift more as you wind the gears - yes, it is via paddles, but still I find it engaging enough.

I totally agree with you that closed spaced, fast shifting modern autos and the ZF8 in particular, are an under appreciated performance tool.

So, I'm very happy I have the ZF8. (though nothing against the manual)

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Good God. Well my point still stands.

Totally get your point and you’re right.

One more addition to the GT3RS. If people think CTR ADM is bad, GT3RS is easily 100k ADM, if you can find one. That’s 33% of the cost of the car! And people are lining up paying it because they don’t want to wait for the no ADM dealers to maybe get an allocation. Porsche allocations come out once a quarter and are completely random in what’s allocated and how many allocations are given.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by robopp

Totally get your point and you’re right.

One more addition to the GT3RS. If people think CTR ADM is bad, GT3RS is easily 100k ADM, if you can find one. That’s 33% of the cost of the car! And people are lining up paying it because they don’t want to wait for the no ADM dealers to maybe get an allocation. Porsche allocations come out once a quarter and are completely random in what’s allocated and how many allocations are given.

Isn't it nice BMW doesn't play that game? On the flip side, that does keep prices high.

[Dingakasteve]

Originally Posted by baron95

You know, I sold my manual Camaro SS 1LE with the superb Tremec 6 speed, and was agonizing over manual vs auto for the M2. I drove both, and liked both. In the end I chose the ZF8 because of the remote start, wireless charging in the proper location with digital smart key, etc that are not available on the manual.

I thought I would regret it, but so far I'm loving that ZF8 and the fact that you get to shift more as you wind the gears - yes, it is via paddles, but still I find it engaging enough.

I totally agree with you that closed spaced, fast shifting modern autos and the ZF8 in particular, are an under appreciated performance tool.

So, I'm very happy I have the ZF8. (though nothing against the manual)

I also traded from an SS 1LE, I have the zf8 in my f22 M240i, and I agree it is one of the best autos I’ve used. I did go with the manual in my g87, but more for the classic nature of it. I know I’ll be slower on the track. But can’t wait see if I can beat my Camaro times.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Dingakasteve

I also traded from an SS 1LE, I have the zf8 in my f22 M240i, and I agree it is one of the best autos I’ve used. I did go with the manual in my g87, but more for the classic nature of it. I know I’ll be slower on the track. But can’t wait see if I can beat my Camaro times.

You and I both. I'm dying to see what the lap times would be on the same track. You can't go wrong with either transmission choice.

I did drive a G87 at Monticello track in NY. But it was a BMW event and they insisted on having traction control full on, and it was a lead follow type deal, even though I was in the "advanced group", it was somewhat "slow".

It does feel like the G87 pulls stronger than the 1LE, despite both having nearly identical weight and HP. The G87 had substantially more body roll than the 1LE, but it does seem to maintain the grip. I did climb the curbs, including a 4 wheel climb to cut the exit of an S chicane, and the G87 was not bothered by it in the least.

So, I say it is promising. I believe there is definitely a tire out there (Cup 2, AD09) in OEM sizes that will make the G87 faster. The question is can it take the abuse the 1LE can take, lap after lap, session after session, year after year completely stock?

We shall see.





P.S. the other question is, will I push the $80K G87 as hard as I pushed the $40K 1LE. We shall see.

I'm 267 miles away from break-in service still.

[nickyjimz]

Originally Posted by Dingakasteve

I also traded from an SS 1LE, I have the zf8 in my f22 M240i, and I agree it is one of the best autos I’ve used. I did go with the manual in my g87, but more for the classic nature of it. I know I’ll be slower on the track. But can’t wait see if I can beat my Camaro times.

How do you guys like the G87 stick vs the Tremec in the Camaro? I thought the stick in my ss 1le was excellent so hoping the M2 is similar...

[Dingakasteve]

Originally Posted by baron95

You and I both. I'm dying to see what the lap times would be on the same track. You can't go wrong with either transmission choice.

I did drive a G87 at Monticello track in NY. But it was a BMW event and they insisted on having traction control full on, and it was a lead follow type deal, even though I was in the "advanced group", it was somewhat "slow".

It does feel like the G87 pulls stronger than the 1LE, despite both having nearly identical weight and HP. The G87 had substantially more body roll than the 1LE, but it does seem to maintain the grip. I did climb the curbs, including a 4 wheel climb to cut the exit of an S chicane, and the G87 was not bothered by it in the least.

So, I say it is promising. I believe there is definitely a tire out there (Cup 2, AD09) in OEM sizes that will make the G87 faster. The question is can it take the abuse the 1LE can take, lap after lap, session after session, year after year completely stock?

We shall see.





P.S. the other question is, will I push the $80K G87 as hard as I pushed the $40K 1LE. We shall see.

I'm 267 miles away from break-in service still.

I’m going to need to follow you, sounds like we are going down similar paths. From how some of the users talk the g87 isn’t a track machine like the 1LE is, which sort of sucks as I could do 6-7 track days and drive 2 hours each way to the track in my 1LE and change nothing but fluids.

I think I’ll push it as hard, but I haven’t gotten to any sort of limits yet, the Camaro was just way to easy to drive hard, but horrible road car in my eyes.

[Dingakasteve]

Originally Posted by nickyjimz

How do you guys like the G87 stick vs the Tremec in the Camaro? I thought the stick in my ss 1le was excellent so hoping the M2 is similar...

The tremec was good, very mechanical, but reliable. I’ve owned quite a few BMWs, and I’ve grown to enjoy the shifter, once you know it, you can quickly work with it. But I really liked the gearing on the Tr-6060, perfect for a track car.

[adc]

Folks you will be able to double-duty the M2, have no fear. As in any BMW, you will have to manage the front tire wear, and to increase the lifespan of this consumable, I suggest installing a camber plate and do a proper alignment.

I've been running -2.7 degrees of camber on my F80 in mixed use for years, without any adverse effect.

And my other suggestion if you get the manual transmission is to install an AutoSolutions SSK. It has been the best bar none since at least the E46 generation. If you are in the DC area, you can come check it in my car before plonking the money, but it positively transforms the experience.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by nickyjimz

How do you guys like the G87 stick vs the Tremec in the Camaro? I thought the stick in my ss 1le was excellent so hoping the M2 is similar...

The TR-6060 has short throws, very positive feel, no-lift shift, and great gearing on the SS 1LE. The other thing is the clutch is extremely robust. I did many dozens of track days on it and was still on my original clutch.

People talk shit about the BMW manual, but I drove the G87 manual and I thought it was totally fine - yes, longer throws and crazy long 2nd gear - but I thought it was fine. I also like the clutch feel, even though people complain a lot. (of course I've been racing E30/E36s on the side, with half functioning transmissions, so my tolerance is very high)

Is the Tremec better? Yes. Does it really matter that much? I don't think so. Clutch life may be a bigger concern. You may want to get a Care+ package from BMW if you have the manual.