[hayabusa55]

If so, did invoice change too?

Here's the car that I'm looking at:

My 335i Coupe
3.0-liter, turbocharged inline 6-cylinder engine
Rear-wheel drive
See all standard features
Base MSRP $41,200
Montego Blue Metallic $550
Saddle Brown/Black Dakota Leather $0
Gray Poplar wood trim $0
Premium Package $2,650
Sport Package $1,200
Sports leather steering wheel with paddle shifters $100
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission $1,325
Destination & Handling: $825
Total MSRP as Built $47,850

Invoice according to the PDF that was posted comes out to about this:

Invoice
E92 335i 37535
Metallic 430
ZPP 2320
ZSP 1000
Destination 825
Paddles 90
MACO 450
Training Fee 180
42830

I subtracted the price of the transmission since they're running that promotion now (I'll pay for the damn paddles ) and I made assumptions on the MACO, but I thought it would be pretty close. Am I wrong in assuming that is the invoice price now? I don't want to go in there with the wrong numbers and immediately lose the fight. How much above that should I shoot for? Thanks!

[methodtim]

Your numbers are a bit wrong. On June 1st, 2008, BMW increased their prices due to the weak US dollar. Here's a list of the price increases - gathered from: http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/05/06/bm...g-june-1-2008/:

- Base price increase ($400)
- Destination charge increase ($50)
- Metallic paint increase ($100)
- Premium package increase ($100)
- Sport package increase ($100)
- Automatic transmission increase ($50)

That said, I just got my order finalized for an 09 on Wednesday and there are still no finalized prices yet. My CA told me that all she saw for pricing were blocks (we did this over the phone). Instead of getting hung up on non-existent numbers right now, I would go for x amount above invoice on the car itself and invoice on the options and packages.

That's how I negotiated and I managed to get an 09 e90 (with refreshed goodness) for $500 above invoice and all options for invoice, whatever those numbers will end up being. My previous deal was straight invoice on an 08 e92, but that fell through when the dealer ran out of allocation (I tried to put in my order on literally the last day possible).

I hope this helps. Good luck!

[hayabusa55]

I see. I thought something was off.

I've revised my numbers:

E92 335i Base Invoice 37935
Metallic 480
ZPP 2420
ZSP 1100
Destination 825
Paddles 90
MACO 450
Training Fee 180

Total Invoice + MACO + Training Fee 43480

Two questions:

1. How much should I expect to be charged if they have to get the car from another dealer and if the prices vary, what's the range?

2. Again, what is a reasonable, fair request above invoice here?

[methodtim]

1. Dealer trades should be transparent to you unless it involves shipping the car, in which case, you'll be on the hook for the shipping charges. I've not experienced this myself, but from what I've read, it's around 800 - 1000.

2. I'm not a dealer, blah, blah, but I think that if you offer $500 above invoice for the car (so $43,980), you'll be well-received. <--- Strike all that....

Edit: Umm... it must have been late when I wrote this, because I'm totally wrong. I thought you were talking 09, but I just re-read everything and you're talking about an 08 model (otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned free auto). Go with invoice, they won't turn you down.

[hayabusa55]

How do I phrase: I want you to make $0 profit on the car?

[methodtim]

Invoice does not equal 0 profit. Far from it! Invoice is not what the dealer paid for the car. It's kind of a made up number, actually. Invoice does not reflect hidden incentives that are built in from the company (bonuses for volume sales, etc.). Trust me when I say that 08 models are going for invoice. Like I said, when I ordered my 08, I was quoted invoice. When my co-worker bought his 08, he got it for invoice. The only drawback is that you're going to be stuck getting whatever is on the lot or whatever the dealer can get in a trade as the 08 MY is being cleared out right now.

If you're nervous about approaching the dealer with a price and getting laughed out of the dealership (like I was), let them do all the talking. I simply submitted an Internet request for quotes through Edmunds.com and waited for the e-mails to come back. The first set of e-mails I got back offered any BMW 335 coupe for invoice.[1]

One other thing. There's a thread here from a Floridian complaining about outrageous prices in for BMW's in Florida. You may want to check it out - http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159669 - to see if it applies to you. Good luck.

[1] Here's the e-mail I got back from Autonation. This guy doesn't work there any more, so I had to switch CA's, but the deal remained the same.

from Privitera, Dan <xxxxxxx@autonation.com>
to Tim Nguyen <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.com>
date Tue, May 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM
subject RE: Questions about your 335I Coupe request from BMW of Fremont
mailed-by autonation.com

hide details May 6


Reply


Hi Tim if you are a serious buyer for the car I can sell it to you for invoice on any 335 coupe I have in stock.

Regards,

office 510-xxx-xxxx
cell 510-xxx-xxxx

Dan

[hayabusa55]

Hmmm... Interesting. Thanks for the replies, Tim! I talked to a CA yesterday, very briefly, just to see what was available. He confirmed the free transmission and the 0.9% until the end of the month. Then he located the car I described above and it sounds like a perfect match for me.

They'd have to get it from another dealer. When I initially asked him if they charge for situations like that, he said yes. Then we looked up the car, I got print outs and left, but forgot to ask where the car is coming from and what the charge would be to get it in.

I just called, and over the phone he says "Oh, we'll work with you." I tell him I'd like to know how much it is so that I know what to expect. He says "We won't charge you for it." I joked around with him and told him I'll put it on the back of his card so I won't forget he said that.

[seanl]

Last night I bought a 335i Sedan w/ manual trans for approx $1K under invoice. And the nice thing is that this was a March build, so it had the older pricing as well which I was able to take advantage of. Car was sitting at BMW SF for at least 3 months.

Most of the the Bay Area dealers are definitely aggressive right now, but it helps to negotiate with the dealer that has the car.

-Sean

[hayabusa55]

If you don't mind, would you explain your tactics in negotiating that price?

Am I at a huge disadvantage trying to buy a car that the dealer doesn't have on the lot?

[methodtim]

Originally Posted by hayabusa55

If you don't mind, would you explain your tactics in negotiating that price?

Am I at a huge disadvantage trying to buy a car that the dealer doesn't have on the lot?

You're never at a disadvantage. BMW is really hurting right now, like every other car company. They're looking to move product, whether it be product that's been sitting on the lot or some other dealer's lot. You should tell them what you want and how much you want it for and let them decide whether they want to play ball with you. In the end, you have to weigh how much you want to car versus how much to want a deal (within reason of course). If you're ready to step away at any point unless your price is met, then you have all the power in the negotiations (again, stressing that your price is reasonable... no one who wants 3000 under invoice is going to get it and if they said they did, they're lying). If, however, you're completely salivating over the car and are willing to let the price keep creeping up, then, sorry to say, you're going to get screwed.

Car dealers are predators, and I don't mean that in a bad way. They're going to go for the kill whenever they can because it means more money in their pocket. What I've found that works is if you do your research beforehand so that when you sit down in front of them, you are an informed customer. I've found that once you show them that you've run the numbers and you know what component costs what, they're much more apt to cut to the chase.

Also, remember that time is not on your side. The longer the dealer has you sitting in front of him, the more likely you're going to buckle and go for a price you'd rather not or make some kind of error. I always, always run my numbers beforehand and decide on an acceptable range before heading into the dealership. That way, I can get down to business right away and get the hell out of there before something goes wrong. I do this because I'm pretty impulsive and the longer I sit in front of toys, the more apt I am to do something stupid.

Good hunting!

[hayabusa55]

I got some pm's on another forum from some CA's saying that the supply is low and I probably can't get a great deal. I'm thinking about going to the local dealer today to talk to the CA that prompted me to start this thread. I'm not so confident anymore.