[Bairdogg]

Hey all,

I just brought home a 2011 N52 E90. Digging through the trunk today I found a dealership bill from 300 miles ago for quite a bit of recall work that was done. The valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and Vanos recall were all performed under warranty (not sure how, seems like the warranty is only 10 yrs.). Seller mentioned the warranty work before selling, but I wasn't shown the bill.

What wasn't mentioned was the note from the dealer stating:

"Car now starts after Vanos recall was performed. Customer made aware that metal was found in the oil and filter. Engine replacement will be needed".

Evidently the recall was performed after the bolts had already sheared off. I am reading online that BMW often wont do the recall work until it is causing issues.

My next steps from here at the moment are to change the oil and get it sent to Blackstone Labs for a report. I am hoping the 300 miles is enough to get good info on what's going on, because I'll feel a lot more comfortable with another flush of fresh oil in the car. Does anyone have any experience with their Vanos outright failing and engine life thereafter? I have no shortage of codes to sort out but the car feels good to drive and I don't want to get into it with the seller if the concern is being overstated by the dealership (I figure they may just be covering their own asses). I didn't sign any bill of sale though, and do feel that I was deceived. Still, I am prepared to get shredded in the responses to this forum post

[ppointer]

I like the idea of the Blackstone analysis.

I also like the idea of having a conversation with the owner. Something cordial. "hey I found this receipt in the trunk. Can you fill me in on the details?". Then he/she is at least on notice that you are aware there may have been some deceit. In Ohio I believe you would have up to two years to file a lawsuit, if necessary.

[Grease23]

So the seller failed to disclose something to you that could hardly be considered more "material" to the transaction.

I'd send a certified or traceable letter to the seller, documenting what you found and his/her failure to disclose the fact that the engine needed replacing. Ask where and when you can return the car for you money back. This is fraud.

Obviously he/she got the news from the dealer and decided to dump it on some unsuspecting person -- you.

Don't mess with it; anything you do will be twisted into problems caused after you had possession.

Lots of healthy cars in the world.

[M-technik-3]

The first question does PA have a used auto lemon law, yes.

https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/prot...ile-lemon-law/

Does this apply on your case?

[Bairdogg]

It sounds like I have recourse if I need to return the car to the seller, but I do want that to be a last resort. I have spent many months looking for an RWD 6MT N52, though none of that matters if it truly is on its deathbed. I worry that I don't have much legal standing given that the bill was in the car, and it will be my word against his as to whether it was disclosed. I did start a conversation with the seller that I will pursue if necessary, I am going to call the dealership tomorrow and try to find out what they saw that lead to suggest a new engine will be needed.

The real question is that, if a recall related issue is jeopardizing the life of the engine, should that engine replacement not be covered under the recall warranty? They say clear as day on the bill that all four bolts on the exhaust cam broke, as well as some on the intake cam. They removed the oil pan to retrieve them. I wonder why there was metal in the oil!!?? They also phrased it as "engine replacement will be needed" due to this metal in the oil... I feel like there is a strong case to be made.

Any thoughts or tips from those more seasoned in working with dealerships?

[M-technik-3]

No dealership experience but does I wonder if they have any photos of the oil filter? They most likely will not discuss the cars previous history with you on the fact they will cite customer privacy.

M52 engines on the other hand are fairly cheap and common so if you know a good independent mechanic maybe get a new engine. Sounds like the car may have a bent valve.

[Bairdogg]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

No dealership experience but does I wonder if they have any photos of the oil filter? They most likely will not discuss the cars previous history with you on the fact they will cite customer privacy.

M52 engines on the other hand are fairly cheap and common so if you know a good independent mechanic maybe get a new engine. Sounds like the car may have a bent valve.

I don't think there is any major damage like a bent valve or spun bearing given how the car runs, but am wondering what BMW saw to declare that the engine "needs" replacing. Having a hard time getting answers at the moment. Of all the forum posts on this issue I haven't seen one mention of engine damage as a result of the bolts shearing. Then again, most people lose one or two, not 5 or 7.

I have neither the time nor budget for an engine swap on this car right now, so if the dealer is of no help and the owner can't find it in his heart to buy the car back (hah!) i will probably just have to drive the car until the motor croaks and figure it out then. But at the same time, there is reason to believe that whatever damage was going to kill the motor would have by now. Man....

[WheelNut2]

If it runs good then drive it? Outside of a compression test there is nothing you can really do mechanically right now without a huge time or dollar commitment. I would definitely look into some legal action.

A friend of mine (this is in Canada, but maybe similar in USA) bought a VW Tiguan that had the engine replaced. She had specifically asked the seller if the engine had been replaced (or something to that effect) in an Email and the seller said no. This was enough to build a case against the seller to force him to refund her something like $5000 or the value of a replacement engine. So, look through your communications with the seller and see if he may have misrepresented any mechanical details of the vehicle.

[Grease23]

The owner doesn't have to affirmatively misrepresent anything. Not mentioning something material is enough. Should a seller reasonably know that an impending engine replacement is due should be disclosed? Duh.

And everybody jumps to "he said / he said" and most of the time that isn't really a 50/50 fight. For example:

Is the price you paid in the ballpark for a fair market value on the car if it didn't need an engine replacement? Yes? OK, it isn't 50/50, that is really strong evidence that you were not told. Ultimately the service tech is going to confirm he told the seller what it says he was told on the paperwork.

The question of whether BMW is responsible for something recalled causing the damage is an interesting one and I don't know the answer on that.

If you've been driving it a bit, you might take out the oil filter and see if there is more metal in it.