[footie]

I understand you national pride and why you don't agree with what I am saying but the fact is this car bears no similarity with all the other cars mentioned above.

The GT2 and GT3 are proper day to day drivable cars that aren't unrefined crude racers, the GT2 and GT3 is a gentleman's racer but not unrefined. The Enzo and F430 Scud are very much in the same style as the Porsche models, meaning very usable and not harsh at all.

I can tell what the GTR V-spec will be like and neither can anyone else so it's a little early to discuss what might or might not be.

If you can accept that this isn't a true daily drive like the other and is more a true race car with number plates then we can all move on and agree that this car can't be regarded as the true new king of the ring.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by footie

I understand you national pride and why you don't agree with what I am saying but the fact is this car bears no similarity with all the other cars mentioned above.

The GT2 and GT3 are proper day to day drivable cars that aren't unrefined crude racers, the GT2 and GT3 is a gentleman's racer but not unrefined. The Enzo and F430 Scud are very much in the same style as the Porsche models, meaning very usable and not harsh at all.

I can tell what the GTR V-spec will be like and neither can anyone else so it's a little early to discuss what might or might not be.

If you can accept that this isn't a true daily drive like the other and is more a true race car with number plates then we can all move on and agree that this car can't be regarded as the true new king of the ring.

You understand nothing. The ACR is the same formula as (lets narrow it down) a GT3RS or 430 Scud. closer to the Ferrari in fact. Take your production car strip it out improve what you can and send it out. None of them make great daily drivers, they are the most focused track cars from their respective brands.

[footie]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

You understand nothing. The ACR is the same formula as (lets narrow it down) a GT3RS or 430 Scud. closer to the Ferrari in fact. Take your production car strip it out improve what you can and send it out. None of them make great daily drivers, they are the most focused track cars from their respective brands.

Maybe you need to drive either the Porsche or the Ferrari before making that statement, they are actually not that bad, both ride remarkably well.

Maybe I am a little harsh on the Viper, after all it isn't the kind of quality product the other two are and as such, expecting anything more than what it is would be damned near impossible. This thing is much, much, closer to it's racing cousin in the LeMans series than either the GT3RS or the Scud.

It depends on what you value most, quality and usability or something which will be almost exclusively be used on the track and only very, very, occasionally used on the road. I think my standards are just a little higher than yours, remember what I said, making something handle well isn't where the skill is, making it handle, still has a comfortable ride is the trick and feel like a quality product, something Dodge haven't quite mastered.

[Spec 1]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

You understand nothing. The ACR is the same formula as (lets narrow it down) a GT3RS or 430 Scud. closer to the Ferrari in fact. Take your production car strip it out improve what you can and send it out. None of them make great daily drivers, they are the most focused track cars from their respective brands.

I have to agree with you. The Viper can be used just as well as a GT3 on the road. The interiors certainly show a difference, but as stated by Footie it's a Porsche vs a Dodge. The thing comes down to who has the fastest production car (Contrary to popular belief in this thread, Nurburgring lap times do not include a score for comfy seats), and Dodge wins.

[E82tt6]

According to Porsche: "The GT3 is designed to be used on the road, and occasionally the track. The GT3RS is designed to be used on the track, and occasionally on the road!"

GT3 RS/GT2/Scud/Enzo/CGT are no more usable as DDs than the Viper. Disqualifying the Viper from competition simply because it's faster than the other "Race Bred" supercars available is silly.

Originally Posted by footie

Maybe you need to drive either the Porsche or the Ferrari before making that statement, they are actually not that bad, both ride remarkably well.

Maybe I am a little harsh on the Viper, after all it isn't the kind of quality product the other two are and as such, expecting anything more than what it is would be damned near impossible. This thing is much, much, closer to it's racing cousin in the LeMans series than either the GT3RS or the Scud.

It depends on what you value most, quality and usability or something which will be almost exclusively be used on the track and only very, very, occasionally used on the road. I think my standards are just a little higher than yours, remember what I said, making something handle well isn't where the skill is, making it handle, still has a comfortable ride is the trick and feel like a quality product, something Dodge haven't quite mastered.

[ages944]

Pyrrhic victory. What's the point of the car if it's only going to fall apart after a couple of runs like that?

What a chunk O' crud that thing is. Throughout that whole video, his car sounded and looked like it was about to lose something.


... I could make a golf car move by strapping a jet engine to it, but that doesn't mean I'd want to.

[footie]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

According to Porsche: "The GT3 is designed to be used on the road, and occasionally the track. The GT3RS is designed to be used on the track, and occasionally on the road!"

GT3 RS/GT2/Scud/Enzo/CGT are no more usable as DDs than the Viper. Disqualifying the Viper from competition simply because it's faster than the other "Race Bred" supercars available is silly.

You have to understand Porsche's thinking with that statement, the GT3 is basically the same car minus the cage and thinner windows. Look at their respective ring times and you will understand how close they are. Yes the GT3RS is more of a track car but that is more down to the way the thing is finished, the roll cage is the sort of requirement anyone who is serious about track work should have, but because of it the practicality goes out the window. I recommend you ride both models, GT3 & GT3RS to see just how well they both drive and ride. I haven't tried the GT2 but doubt it will behave any differently to either of the GT3s.

As for the Enzo and Carrera GT, man seriously you need to know your cars, these are hypercars and have nothing similar to something which is to be used on the track so disregard them right away. The F430Scud is probably the closest to the Viper but it will still feel like something you can drive daily even if you wouldn't want to, the ride quality is amazingly good for such a focused car. Now the ZR1, it's suspension setup is actually softer than the Z06 and actually rides better.

Finally the Viper, based on the video alone I can tell it's the most unrefined, most focused, harshest riding car to lap the ring and still be classed as a production road car. I am not doubting the title it holds as Ring King, I just think it's not in the spirit of the rest of the cars which have come before it.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by footie

Finally the Viper, based on the video alone I can tell it's the most unrefined, most focused, harshest riding car to lap the ring and still be classed as a production road car. I am not doubting the title it holds as Ring King, I just think it's not in the spirit of the rest of the cars which have come before it.

It is indeed unrefined, but when your starting point is certainly less refined and you start removing things to make it faster that is what you end up with.

The bottom line is that it is a Viper, that means it is a low tech sledge hammer that has huge rubber to get grip (instead of sophisticated suspension), it has a huge low tech engine to make power and that is about it. In reality this car is probably not much worse day to day then a regular Viper, sadly.

None of this changes the fact that this thing is a production car and it can throw down some numbers.

[footie]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

It is indeed unrefined, but when your starting point is certainly less refined and you start removing things to make it faster that is what you end up with.

The bottom line is that it is a Viper, that means it is a low tech sledge hammer that has huge rubber to get grip (instead of sophisticated suspension), it has a huge low tech engine to make power and that is about it. In reality this car is probably not much worse day to day then a regular Viper, sadly.

None of this changes the fact that this thing is a production car and it can throw down some numbers.

Well said.

But the question is, which would you prefer, a little sophistication or old-fashioned crudeness?

To me it's a hollow victory compared to the likes of the GTR, it's much heavier, less power and yet still an acceptable daily drive.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by footie

Well said.

But the question is, which would you prefer, a little sophistication or old-fashioned crudeness?

To me it's a hollow victory compared to the likes of the GTR, it's much heavier, less power and yet still an acceptable daily drive.

I currently own two Porsches and a BMW, I definitely prefer sophistication, but all of this competition improves the breed and I love that.

It is very interesting to me how these companies have vastly different approaches to building car and making performance and basically get the same results. We must be approaching the limits of todays road tires.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by footie

Well said.

But the question is, which would you prefer, a little sophistication or old-fashioned crudeness?

To me it's a hollow victory compared to the likes of the GTR, it's much heavier, less power and yet still an acceptable daily drive.

If someone has the money to buy one of these, then they probably have multiple cars in their stable. If that's the case, and this just ends up being a track car, or a "fun" day car, then I'd probably take the Viper.

If, for some reason, someone actually wants any of the said vehicles as a DD, then I guess I'd take the GT3 or the Scuderia, but I could think of far better choices.