Is my CA crazy? Or are they all like this? (its a long one, sorry)

nonimus · 10-16-2008, 07:37 PM

I have been following this forum almost obsessively since ordering my own 09 335i E92 at the start of september. I first want to thank everyone on this board for supplying me with such a vast amount of knowledge before I ever stepped foot in the dealership! Now on to my story....

When I first went searching for a decent deal/dealership, I was in the market for an 08' 335i coupe to lease. Unfortunately, the closest dealership with a 6mt left was in Chicago (and I simply refuse to drive an AT haha) and even that vehicle didn't have all of the options/color/trim I was looking for. I ended up ordering my 09' and was given an estimate using 08' numbers since 09' numbers were not out.

I basically had to call my CA five times just to get a production number and be able to track my vehicle (he of course never answers a phone call

). By the time this happened, I was already in the paint-shop stage. A week or so went by and my vehicle was at the port awaiting a shipping vessel. At this point in time, I knew the 09' lease numbers were available thanks to this site so I shot my CA an e-mail saying I would like to talk numbers and negotiate a deal. I figured my car would be here in at least 3 weeks or so and wanted to have an idea as to how much cash I would need up front and an idea of my monthly payments.

His response was, "I am still waiting for the 09' numbers. I'll get back to you"... thats it. Now I had read plenty of posts with members here listing details on their own deals and knew for sure that the 09' numbers were out since the BMWNA site lets you estimate lease payments. I mean, people have already taken delivery of 09 E90's, and if it wasn't for the EPA/CARB hold-up, many others would have their x35i's as well.

My next e-mail had the lease numbers PDF attached and I laid out all of the numbers I expected for my own deal. I also asked if he is waiting for November numbers, knows anything about the EPA hold-up, and if he will only speak numbers with me once the car is physically on his lot. To this, he only said, "Sorry, I had surgery last week. I'll look this up and get back to you." It has been three days now and no reply which is

!

Should I walk away? Or speak with a manager and change my CA? Or is this behavior normal and a sales tactic? Like many of you here, I have been without a car for about 5 weeks. I don't want to start this process over again. I should have ordered 4 cars from 4 different dealerships haha. I just don't want to be in a position where I get the call that my baby is at the dealership, and when I get there they say, "OK, so we are offering $XXX over MSRP price and a money factor of .0028, take it or leave it." I would of course spit at his feet and leave, but after waiting 2 months for a car it would hurt inside

I feel like I am a well informed consumer in an economic time where I have the upper hand, but this guy is doing everything he can to turn that around. It's almost like he doesn't even want to sell the car, like he doesn't give a $%#&. Any suggestions and past experiences would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading guys.

sdslayer · 10-16-2008, 08:38 PM

If you read some of my posts, I have a similar story.

My CA hasn't been too responsive (eg I left him an email 2 days ago, still no response). This lack of response partially contributed to me missing an 08 order. And, I definitely fault him for telling me to "come in later" to change options, only to see I can no longer add the logic7 (which I didnt know would be gone at time of order).

Before any numbers were out, he quoted me a little off MSRP and I said "whoah, that sounds high. I am going to talk to other dealers. I just want you to be competitive." He said "go ahead, we will be competitive". So, All the other dealers in the area quote about the same number, which is a much better # than his. I email him and he says "ok, send me something in writing." So I fwd him an email and I get a 250 word bashing of that dealer. Im like "but I have 2 other quotes that are $50 more". Also: He told me during negotiation that he would give me the same MF markup as the 08 deal, but now is doing the full 40, after they lowered their price when I complained about the above. [you shouldnt be marked up more than 40]

Anyways, 90% of salesmen lie all day long. I think the other 10 are at home sick.

You can ask for the sales mgr. You could also say something like "Hey, you seem to be real busy. Is there another CA that I can work with?". Get a hold of someone and offer 750 over inv (real invoice, with maco & training(.

Hopefully, you will not get screwed.... too hard.

rmorin49 · 10-16-2008, 08:55 PM

Walk away and deal with one of the CA sponsors on the bimmerfest board. You can deal from invoice up not MSRP down. Even better do an ED and save about 10-12% off US MSRP.

nukezero · 10-16-2008, 09:58 PM

Uhhh.........

i thought you were supposed to negociate the deal up front before you drop your security deposit? my '09 335i coupe is on order as well.

atleast thats what I did in my 1-page contract with the dealer. But then again, I am buying the car, not leasing.

I had the dealer write the agreed price, plus TTL, total out the door cost plus whatever freebies i wanted (floor mats.)

nonimus · 10-16-2008, 11:44 PM

I suppose my best course of action is to just show up at the dealership with all of the info and numbers I have and request a negotiation. Surprise attack haha.

Can you finalize a deal on a lease before you take delivery of the vehicle? As in complete all paperwork, sign and even pay all inception/fees to make your delivery day quicker? I'm a bit confused about this. Some posts seem to indicate finalized deals, while some seem to indicate only a quote which may very well change once the car has arrived and you're ready to sign all of the paperwork.

This has been so frustrating. The guy started off so open, nice and casual. Complete 180 now...

dubiousONE · 10-16-2008, 11:50 PM

Some CA's are crazy.. I dealt with 3 of them in person and like 10 of them over the phone. One lead me on for 2 months straight I finally had to call his manager and complain.. but no resolution.. they basically lost my business..

methodtim · 10-17-2008, 02:56 AM

Hey nominus,

Welcome to the forum. I can definitely feel for you. I have a similar story as yours. Long story short, my original CA suddenly quit to do some "soul searching," without informing me, of course. I ended up having to switch CA's mid-purchase and mid-negotiation. I was completely forthright with my next (and current CA) about the negotiated price that I had agreed upon with the other CA, and, fortunately, she agreed and we moved forward.

My advice to you is this: Don't ever hesitate to walk away or escalate to the GM at the dealership. The only power a consumer has in this transaction is our ability to walk away from the deal. All CA's are predators and for every good one, there are a ton more that are lazy or imbalanced. They should be bending over backwards to make you feel safe prior to the sale. Of course, we also understand that they won't give a shit after the papers are signed, but by then, you'll be in a new car and you won't care either.

So if this guy is not doing it for you and you don't want to start over, call the dealership and demand to talk to the GM. In fact, the GM should have called you or e-mailed you already to offer his services - if that didn't happen that's a sign that you might want to go to another dealership. Tell the GM your concerns and tell him straight out that this is going to cost him a sale unless he gives you his best CA. This will get the ball rolling. Your other option is, of course, to walk away completely, but that's definitely the nuclear option that you should save once you've given the GM a chance to fix your situation.

Hope this helps.

Jake C · 10-17-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by methodtim

All CA's are predators and for every good one, there are a ton more that are lazy or imbalanced. They should be bending over backwards to make you feel safe prior to the sale. Of course, we also understand that they won't give a shit after the papers are signed, but by then, you'll be in a new car and you won't care either.

I respect your opinion but I disagree all CA's are not predators. We have some great CA Board Sponsors on E90 Post and other BMW forums that are a pleasure to do business with. Irv, Rikki, Adrian, Philippe, Will etc..

All are knowledgeable in ED, MSD's and they actually know what the MF and APR is. Search out a board sponsor and save the headache.

- J

methodtim · 10-17-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake C

I respect your opinion but I disagree all CA's are not predators. We have some great CA Board Sponsors on E90 Post and other BMW forums that are a pleasure to do business with. Irv, Rikki, Adrian, Philippe, Will etc..

All are knowledgeable in ED, MSD's and they actually know what the MF and APR is. Search out a board sponsor and save the headache.

- J

They're still predators. Just because they're fair doesn't mean they aren't out to make themselves the best deal. It's capitalism at its finest.

IrvRobinson · 10-17-2008, 08:37 PM

We are not all predators....I give the best deals I possibly can along with the best service I can offer during my 10 -12 hours that I'm available almost daily.Sometimes I'm on the forums from 6-7am and then again at night if I can still keep my eyes open.I help people whenever I can even if they're not buying from me.

We're not all the same,if you have a CA that isn't responsive,talk to their SM and ask for someone else who wants to earn your business or go elsewhere.I would call the CA in the am on a Monday since most of us are at work then and also send an email.If there's no response by Tuesday,either call the SM or try someone who thinks of this as a career and not a job......I do !

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42850

nonimus · 10-17-2008, 10:08 PM

Thanks for all of the responses! I will be going to the dealer on Monday morning and seeing if I can make any progress with my CA. If not, I will ask for the manager and voice my concerns.

If I do feel the need to walk away, do you guys think it would be possible to find any MY09 335i coupes that haven't been ordered by a prospective purchaser any time soon? I don't think I could re-order elsewhere and do another two month wait without some sort of vehicle.

Irv, let's say I wanted to work with you, or any sponsor on this site. How would being located in Philadelphia affect that? I haven't considered a long distance relationship with a CA yet haha. Is that a possibility? Sorry for my lack of knowledge here.

Jake C · 10-17-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by methodtim

They're still predators. Just because they're fair doesn't mean they aren't out to make themselves the best deal. It's capitalism at its finest.

As I said I respect your opinion. But I disagree. I don't think you can lump one group of people into a general category. Some really good CA's out there.

- J

Jake C · 10-17-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonimus

Thanks for all of the responses! I will be going to the dealer on Monday morning and seeing if I can make any progress with my CA. If not, I will ask for the manager and voice my concerns.

If I do feel the need to walk away, do you guys think it would be possible to find any MY09 335i coupes that haven't been ordered by a prospective purchaser any time soon? I don't think I could re-order elsewhere and do another two month wait without some sort of vehicle.

Irv, let's say I wanted to work with you, or any sponsor on this site. How would being located in Philadelphia affect that? I haven't considered a long distance relationship with a CA yet haha. Is that a possibility? Sorry for my lack of knowledge here.

I think Irv could order the car for you and have it shipped to your home. If it is shipped to your dealer then there will be an additional fee I think. I would drop Irv an Email and ask as I have no clue what Irv's allocation is.

- J

IrvRobinson · 10-18-2008, 01:24 PM

Our allocation is pretty strong and either you can fly here ( Chicago ) and drive it back, or your car will be shipped directly to your house,then you would just have to pay the shipping.

fizzle · 10-21-2008, 07:57 PM

speak with Sal from Park Ave. BMW in Maywood NJ. hes on the forums, his sn is autocouture

328i · 10-21-2008, 08:25 PM

I would go in and ask to talk to someone who wants to sell a car and drop this guy. He should be the one trying to make the sale happen, not you. I'd think with the economy as shitty as it is CA's would be trying to go above and beyond whats necessary to get business.

kurtb · 10-23-2008, 07:56 AM

I'm on my second BMW purchase, my CA was so good for my first car I followed her to a new dealership for this one. I ordered my second car on 9.17.08 and I am picking it up tomorrow 10.23.2008, she even emailed me every couple of days to let me know what the status was.

nonimus · 10-23-2008, 10:32 AM

Well my plan to just show up somewhat worked. I got him to sit down with me and actually discuss pricing and negotiation. He tried to get the full MF markup, talked my way out of it. I got a decent price on the vehicle as well. 1K over invoice while most people in my area pay well over 2.5K over (according to TMV pricing reports from Edmunds). I am still upset with his performance as a CA. For example, my car arrived at the dealer on 10/21... I still haven't gotten confirmation from my CA of this, even though I stopped by after work and SAW the car myself haha.

I will be taking delivery this evening! Hopefully nothing changes once we go over final paperwork and I can avoid this dealer for the rest of my life.

I will try to post some pics as soon as I can. Thanks for your input everyone.

Frank2808 · 10-23-2008, 10:43 AM

My 09 335 coupe will be my third BMW purchase and my third dealer/CA. The first two dealer/CAs I dealt with were just as you described. This time around I read my local e90post forum and found a CA that came highly recommended. The experience has been great. Very responsive, gave me a great deal without any haggling, very open with the lease numbers, and understands mods etc. Dave Theado at Ganley BMW in Cleveland. I give him two thumbs up.

10-16-2008, 07:37 PM	#1
nonimus New Member 2 Rep 24 Posts Drives: 09 335i E92 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	Is my CA crazy? Or are they all like this? (its a long one, sorry) I have been following this forum almost obsessively since ordering my own 09 335i E92 at the start of september. I first want to thank everyone on this board for supplying me with such a vast amount of knowledge before I ever stepped foot in the dealership! Now on to my story.... When I first went searching for a decent deal/dealership, I was in the market for an 08' 335i coupe to lease. Unfortunately, the closest dealership with a 6mt left was in Chicago (and I simply refuse to drive an AT haha) and even that vehicle didn't have all of the options/color/trim I was looking for. I ended up ordering my 09' and was given an estimate using 08' numbers since 09' numbers were not out. I basically had to call my CA five times just to get a production number and be able to track my vehicle (he of course never answers a phone call ). By the time this happened, I was already in the paint-shop stage. A week or so went by and my vehicle was at the port awaiting a shipping vessel. At this point in time, I knew the 09' lease numbers were available thanks to this site so I shot my CA an e-mail saying I would like to talk numbers and negotiate a deal. I figured my car would be here in at least 3 weeks or so and wanted to have an idea as to how much cash I would need up front and an idea of my monthly payments. His response was, "I am still waiting for the 09' numbers. I'll get back to you"... thats it. Now I had read plenty of posts with members here listing details on their own deals and knew for sure that the 09' numbers were out since the BMWNA site lets you estimate lease payments. I mean, people have already taken delivery of 09 E90's, and if it wasn't for the EPA/CARB hold-up, many others would have their x35i's as well. My next e-mail had the lease numbers PDF attached and I laid out all of the numbers I expected for my own deal. I also asked if he is waiting for November numbers, knows anything about the EPA hold-up, and if he will only speak numbers with me once the car is physically on his lot. To this, he only said, "Sorry, I had surgery last week. I'll look this up and get back to you." It has been three days now and no reply which is ! Should I walk away? Or speak with a manager and change my CA? Or is this behavior normal and a sales tactic? Like many of you here, I have been without a car for about 5 weeks. I don't want to start this process over again. I should have ordered 4 cars from 4 different dealerships haha. I just don't want to be in a position where I get the call that my baby is at the dealership, and when I get there they say, "OK, so we are offering $XXX over MSRP price and a money factor of .0028, take it or leave it." I would of course spit at his feet and leave, but after waiting 2 months for a car it would hurt inside I feel like I am a well informed consumer in an economic time where I have the upper hand, but this guy is doing everything he can to turn that around. It's almost like he doesn't even want to sell the car, like he doesn't give a $%#&. Any suggestions and past experiences would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading guys.
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

10-16-2008, 08:38 PM	#2
sdslayer Private 8 Rep 92 Posts Drives: 2006 SL 500 - soon 09 335 cv Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sunny San Diego iTrader: (0)	If you read some of my posts, I have a similar story. My CA hasn't been too responsive (eg I left him an email 2 days ago, still no response). This lack of response partially contributed to me missing an 08 order. And, I definitely fault him for telling me to "come in later" to change options, only to see I can no longer add the logic7 (which I didnt know would be gone at time of order). Before any numbers were out, he quoted me a little off MSRP and I said "whoah, that sounds high. I am going to talk to other dealers. I just want you to be competitive." He said "go ahead, we will be competitive". So, All the other dealers in the area quote about the same number, which is a much better # than his. I email him and he says "ok, send me something in writing." So I fwd him an email and I get a 250 word bashing of that dealer. Im like "but I have 2 other quotes that are $50 more". Also: He told me during negotiation that he would give me the same MF markup as the 08 deal, but now is doing the full 40, after they lowered their price when I complained about the above. [you shouldnt be marked up more than 40] Anyways, 90% of salesmen lie all day long. I think the other 10 are at home sick. You can ask for the sales mgr. You could also say something like "Hey, you seem to be real busy. Is there another CA that I can work with?". Get a hold of someone and offer 750 over inv (real invoice, with maco & training(. Hopefully, you will not get screwed.... too hard.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-16-2008, 08:55 PM	#3
rmorin49 Major 54 Rep 1,162 Posts Drives: 11 335d/10 Z4 s30i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hagerstown, MD iTrader: (1)	Walk away and deal with one of the CA sponsors on the bimmerfest board. You can deal from invoice up not MSRP down. Even better do an ED and save about 10-12% off US MSRP. __________________ Colonel (Retired), US Army/Hagerstown, MD 2016 518ixdrive/MSport AW/Ivory White ED-01-10 2010 Z4s30i AW/Beige/Burl/ 6MT/SP/PP/CWP/NAV/ipod/USB/CA (retired) 2011 335d BS/Oyster/PP/CWP/NAV/ipod/USB(Daily Driver) 30+ mpg(retired)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-16-2008, 09:58 PM	#4
nukezero Major 352 Rep 1,465 Posts Drives: BMW 3 series Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Irvine iTrader: (8)	Uhhh......... i thought you were supposed to negociate the deal up front before you drop your security deposit? my '09 335i coupe is on order as well. atleast thats what I did in my 1-page contract with the dealer. But then again, I am buying the car, not leasing. I had the dealer write the agreed price, plus TTL, total out the door cost plus whatever freebies i wanted (floor mats.)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-16-2008, 11:44 PM	#5
nonimus New Member 2 Rep 24 Posts Drives: 09 335i E92 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	I suppose my best course of action is to just show up at the dealership with all of the info and numbers I have and request a negotiation. Surprise attack haha. Can you finalize a deal on a lease before you take delivery of the vehicle? As in complete all paperwork, sign and even pay all inception/fees to make your delivery day quicker? I'm a bit confused about this. Some posts seem to indicate finalized deals, while some seem to indicate only a quote which may very well change once the car has arrived and you're ready to sign all of the paperwork. This has been so frustrating. The guy started off so open, nice and casual. Complete 180 now...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-16-2008, 11:50 PM	#6
dubiousONE Second Lieutenant 43 Rep 247 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 335 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California iTrader: (1)	Some CA's are crazy.. I dealt with 3 of them in person and like 10 of them over the phone. One lead me on for 2 months straight I finally had to call his manager and complain.. but no resolution.. they basically lost my business..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-17-2008, 02:56 AM	#7
methodtim Brigadier General 381 Rep 3,885 Posts Drives: Audi RS Q8 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Darkness there, and nothing more iTrader: (0) Garage List 2021 Audi RS Q8 [0.00] 2021 BMW X3 M40i [0.00] 2017 Toyota Tacoma [0.00]	Hey nominus, Welcome to the forum. I can definitely feel for you. I have a similar story as yours. Long story short, my original CA suddenly quit to do some "soul searching," without informing me, of course. I ended up having to switch CA's mid-purchase and mid-negotiation. I was completely forthright with my next (and current CA) about the negotiated price that I had agreed upon with the other CA, and, fortunately, she agreed and we moved forward. My advice to you is this: Don't ever hesitate to walk away or escalate to the GM at the dealership. The only power a consumer has in this transaction is our ability to walk away from the deal. All CA's are predators and for every good one, there are a ton more that are lazy or imbalanced. They should be bending over backwards to make you feel safe prior to the sale. Of course, we also understand that they won't give a shit after the papers are signed, but by then, you'll be in a new car and you won't care either. So if this guy is not doing it for you and you don't want to start over, call the dealership and demand to talk to the GM. In fact, the GM should have called you or e-mailed you already to offer his services - if that didn't happen that's a sign that you might want to go to another dealership. Tell the GM your concerns and tell him straight out that this is going to cost him a sale unless he gives you his best CA. This will get the ball rolling. Your other option is, of course, to walk away completely, but that's definitely the nuclear option that you should save once you've given the GM a chance to fix your situation. Hope this helps. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-17-2008, 08:37 PM	#10
IrvRobinson Banned 39 Rep 731 Posts Drives: X3 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	We are not all predators....I give the best deals I possibly can along with the best service I can offer during my 10 -12 hours that I'm available almost daily.Sometimes I'm on the forums from 6-7am and then again at night if I can still keep my eyes open.I help people whenever I can even if they're not buying from me. We're not all the same,if you have a CA that isn't responsive,talk to their SM and ask for someone else who wants to earn your business or go elsewhere.I would call the CA in the am on a Monday since most of us are at work then and also send an email.If there's no response by Tuesday,either call the SM or try someone who thinks of this as a career and not a job......I do ! http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42850
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-17-2008, 10:08 PM	#11
nonimus New Member 2 Rep 24 Posts Drives: 09 335i E92 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	Thanks for all of the responses! I will be going to the dealer on Monday morning and seeing if I can make any progress with my CA. If not, I will ask for the manager and voice my concerns. If I do feel the need to walk away, do you guys think it would be possible to find any MY09 335i coupes that haven't been ordered by a prospective purchaser any time soon? I don't think I could re-order elsewhere and do another two month wait without some sort of vehicle. Irv, let's say I wanted to work with you, or any sponsor on this site. How would being located in Philadelphia affect that? I haven't considered a long distance relationship with a CA yet haha. Is that a possibility? Sorry for my lack of knowledge here.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-18-2008, 01:24 PM	#14
IrvRobinson Banned 39 Rep 731 Posts Drives: X3 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	Our allocation is pretty strong and either you can fly here ( Chicago ) and drive it back, or your car will be shipped directly to your house,then you would just have to pay the shipping.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-21-2008, 07:57 PM	#15
fizzle is it the 5oclock free crack giveaway? 240 Rep 17,453 Posts Drives: a motorized vee-hickle Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Jersey iTrader: (14)	speak with Sal from Park Ave. BMW in Maywood NJ. hes on the forums, his sn is autocouture
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-21-2008, 08:25 PM	#16
328i Colonel 149 Rep 2,934 Posts Drives: E46 ///M Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: central NJ iTrader: (15)	I would go in and ask to talk to someone who wants to sell a car and drop this guy. He should be the one trying to make the sale happen, not you. I'd think with the economy as shitty as it is CA's would be trying to go above and beyond whats necessary to get business. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-23-2008, 07:56 AM	#17
kurtb New Member 0 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 2009 328i Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	I'm on my second BMW purchase, my CA was so good for my first car I followed her to a new dealership for this one. I ordered my second car on 9.17.08 and I am picking it up tomorrow 10.23.2008, she even emailed me every couple of days to let me know what the status was.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-23-2008, 10:32 AM	#18
nonimus New Member 2 Rep 24 Posts Drives: 09 335i E92 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	Well my plan to just show up somewhat worked. I got him to sit down with me and actually discuss pricing and negotiation. He tried to get the full MF markup, talked my way out of it. I got a decent price on the vehicle as well. 1K over invoice while most people in my area pay well over 2.5K over (according to TMV pricing reports from Edmunds). I am still upset with his performance as a CA. For example, my car arrived at the dealer on 10/21... I still haven't gotten confirmation from my CA of this, even though I stopped by after work and SAW the car myself haha. I will be taking delivery this evening! Hopefully nothing changes once we go over final paperwork and I can avoid this dealer for the rest of my life. I will try to post some pics as soon as I can. Thanks for your input everyone.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-23-2008, 10:43 AM	#19
Frank2808 Second Lieutenant 12 Rep 207 Posts Drives: 2011 335is Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cleveland iTrader: (2)	My 09 335 coupe will be my third BMW purchase and my third dealer/CA. The first two dealer/CAs I dealt with were just as you described. This time around I read my local e90post forum and found a CA that came highly recommended. The experience has been great. Very responsive, gave me a great deal without any haggling, very open with the lease numbers, and understands mods etc. Dave Theado at Ganley BMW in Cleveland. I give him two thumbs up.
	Appreciate 0 Quote