[Zeph]

Well, today my car won't crank. It just sits there trying and trying but won't crank. I got that limp mode about 2 weeks ago and I guess that was the beginning of the end.

July 2008 build, took delievery on 08/11/2008 and I now have about 2300 miles.

I guess it is TRUE they are still putting BAD rev.2 pumps into new cars, even though Rev.3 was already available...

good stuff!

[sambonator]

Are they putting more ethanol in winter gas?

[Zeph]

I use only Shell, which I am pretty sure doesn't use ethanol... dunno

[sambonator]

All summer long, my car ran fine. Now with the new Winter gasoline blends, I think many people are starting to see more fuel pump problems.... as evidenced by more posts here regarding fuel pump issues. See the below article from http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/9/13/234043/431

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A Primer on Gasoline Blending
Gasoline is composed of many different hydrocarbons. Crude oil enters a refinery, and is processed through various units before being blended into gasoline. A refinery may have a fluid catalytic cracker (FCC), an alkylate unit, and a reformer, each of which produces gasoline blending components. Alkylate gasoline, for example, is valuable because it has a very high octane, and can be used to produce high-octane (and higher value) blends. Light straight run gasoline is the least processed stream. It is cheap to produce, but it has a low octane. The person specifying the gasoline blends has to mix all of the components together to meet the product specifications.

There are two very important (although not the only) specifications that need to be met for each gasoline blend. The gasoline needs to have the proper octane, and it needs to have the proper Reid vapor pressure, or RVP. While the octane of a particular grade is constant throughout the year, the RVP spec changes as cooler weather sets in.

The RVP is the vapor pressure of the gasoline blend when the temperature is 100 degrees F. Normal atmospheric pressure varies, but is usually around 14.7 lbs per square inch (psi). Atmospheric pressure is caused by the weight of the air over our heads. If a liquid has a vapor pressure of greater than local atmospheric pressure, that liquid boils. For example, when you heat a pot of water, the vapor pressure increases until it reaches atmospheric pressure. At that point, the water begins to boil.

In the summer, when temperatures can exceed 100 degrees F in many locations, it is important that the RVP of gasoline is well below 14.7. Otherwise, it can pressure up your gas tanks and gas cans, and it can boil in open containers. Gas that is boiled off ends up in the atmosphere, and contributes to air pollution. Therefore, the EPA has declared that summer gasoline blends may not exceed 7.8 psi in some locations, and 9.0 psi in others.

A typical summer gasoline blend might consist of 40% FCC gas, 25% straight run gas, 15% alkylate, 18% reformate, and 2% butane. The RVP of the gasoline blend depends on how much of each component is in the blend, and what the RVP is of each component. Butane is a relatively inexpensive ingredient in gasoline, but it has the highest vapor pressure at around 52 psi.

In a gasoline blend, each component contributes a fraction to the overall RVP. In the case of butane, if there is 10% butane in the blend, it will contribute around 5.2 psi (10% of 52 psi) to the overall blend. (In reality, it is slightly more complicated than this, because some components interact with each other which can affect the expected RVP). This means that in the summer, the butane fraction must be very low in the gasoline, or the overall RVP of the blend will be too high. That is the primary difference between winter and summer gasoline blends.


Why Prices Fall in the Fall
Winter gasoline blends are phased in as the weather gets cooler. September 15th is the date of the first increase in RVP, and in some areas the allowed RVP eventually increases to 15 psi. This has two implications for gasoline prices every fall. First, as noted, butane is a cheaper blending component than most of the other ingredients. That makes fall and winter gasoline cheaper to produce. But butane is also abundant, so that means that gasoline supplies effectively increase as the RVP requirement increases. Not only that, but this all takes place after summer driving season, when demand typically falls off.

These factors normally combine each year to reduce gasoline prices in the fall (even in non-election years). The RVP is stepped back down to summer levels starting in the spring, and this usually causes prices to increase. But lest you think of buying cheap winter gasoline and storing it until spring or summer, remember that it will pressure up as the weather heats up, and the contained butane will start to vaporize out of the mix.

And that's why gasoline prices generally fall back in the fall, and spring forward in the spring.

[Zeph]

nice !~ I wonder if that is why the fuel pumps are failing? Makes sense to me with rough idles and occasional limp modes, I feel like mine is TOTALLY dead now all of a sudden because it just won't crank. I even let it try for like 10 seconds once. So sad, I am embarrased to have a tow truck come to my house and pick up my 2 month old car. My neighbors are gonna drive by in their $17,000 ford and laugh at me I bet.

I hope it cranks later so I can atleast drive it to the dealer and drop it off...

[sambonator]

My car just started exhibiting fuel pump issues... sudden power loss and very rough idling (car shaking!)... and a low rough exhaust note... I shut it down, restarted and all was fine again... but I know it'll eventually lead to longer cranks then complete failure...

[Zeph]

mine had 1 limp 2 weeks ago, no slow starts or any other problems. It just died all of a sudden (between getting home last night and trying to crank it this morning). No real warnings or slow signs of failure, just "c-ya". Been waiting for over an hour for a SA at BMW to call me back (they were all busy lol, guess BMW's are falling like rocks)?? Now that is service...

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by sambonator

My car just started exhibiting fuel pump issues... sudden power loss and very rough idling (car shaking!)... and a low rough exhaust note... I shut it down, restarted and all was fine again... but I know it'll eventually lead to longer cranks then complete failure...

yup had the same thing happen to me.....car was running, then all of a sudden started idling horribly and got a limp mode and SES. checked the code and it read cylinder 2 misfire. drove the car in that horrible state for about 1 mile, then it smoothed right back out and is running fine.

[cn555ic]

I have a feeling its the winter gas...I had this problem last year...The car started cranking for a long time before starting...Finished the tank of gas out that I got from BP, then switched over to Shell 93 and it starting running fine till now! No problems whatsover, so it doesn't necessarily mean the HPFP all the time, could be the gas!

[Zeph]

Well, my SA called today and said they found the fuel pump fuse was blown. They replaced it and immediately it blew the fuse again. But here is the scary part, he asked me what this "added fuel filter thing is" and how does it connect electrically to my system... he was talking about my RR OCC! How does a mechanic see an oil catch can and think it is a fuel system device? And there are no wires, so how would it be electrically connected to anything? So that kinda scared me a little, very weird. I told him it was an OCC and that it just keeps oil from building up in my Intake/Intercooler from the recirculating air line. Guess I will wait to see what they find, but like I told him Friday, I am sure it is just a bad HPFP and since he didn't "believe me" I will end up waiting longer for them to order it...

[Zeph]

So I get my car back and look at the receipt. The fuel pump was apparently blowing the fuse and they replaced it... however! it says the "intank fuel pump" and the part # is Pump: 16999914, with a fuel repair kit # 162020

weird

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by Zeph

So I get my car back and look at the receipt. The fuel pump was apparently blowing the fuse and they replaced it... however! it says the "intank fuel pump" and the part # is Pump: 16999914, with a fuel repair kit # 162020

weird

So is the HPFP inside the fuel tank? And it only takes 2 hours labor to replace?

[Zeph]

no a standard fuel pump is in the tank, just like any car. You could buy a generic Walboro to replace that one (assuming it is a normal size I guess).

The HPFP is up near/on the engine somewhere as far as I know...

[2planker]

Well you can add me to the list as well. I have a May 08 production 335 and an hour ago at lunch I get my first long crank followed by a limp mode. Restart the car, everything is fine for about 20 mins and then the limp mode again. After lunch,it took me three times to get the car to actually start and barely made it back to the office.

In my 330 I had to go through 4 separate steering columns before I finally resolved the issue of the column not unlocking when you put the key in. Hopefully, one will do the trick this time with the fuel pump. But I"m not holding my breath.

Matt

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by Zeph

no a standard fuel pump is in the tank, just like any car. You could buy a generic Walboro to replace that one (assuming it is a normal size I guess).

The HPFP is up near/on the engine somewhere as far as I know...

I see... didn't know we had 2 fuel pumps in our cars! Strange that they replaced the in-tank standard fuel pump in your car... is that known to go bad as well I wonder...