[Mr. 5]

You know what guys?
We can go back and forth for pages and pages, but we will never know until there is some sort of proof will we?

Until then there will be speculation on one side, and there will be guarrantee on the other.

I say this...I say that Hotrod182 should go up to Sacramento and meet up with Shiv to have some fun runs.
I know it's a long drive, but the pros for Hotrod182 is that the conditions should be perfect and the odds of him trapping higher than Famoso would be high. IMO, I think he would have a good chance to trap 118 there.

This will give Shiv all day to find whatever he needs to find to prove that he has something different than just a tune.

Hotrod, are you up for it?

[imoksoami]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

+1 Take up the offer shiv! your the one making these calims, why dont you go and find out!

Mr.5, Driver72 and myself all know his car is fast, if you cant accept it then you cant. Take him up on his offer, no reason he has to prove anything to you.

GO and show us what you find.

+1000

[dtg]

Originally Posted by Humtek

Try emailing Shiv over PM. You'll get a response a lot faster or you could try emailing Dustin. Either one of those guys can answer you questions.

Thanks for your help, but that's not really my point. Besides, if he has time to be here on the forum then of course he can see that he has PMs!

Thanks again for offering to help.

[aut0sh0cker]

If I were Shiv, I would just let this one go... Seriously, this reminds me of how Porsche claimed Nissan falsified their 'ring times with "secret mods." To be honest, it was just bad publicity and put Porsche down even before we found out that their claims were false. Now this in no way means that I wont ever buy a Porsche

[stillclaimndp]

Originally Posted by JB335

wow. This is a sad sad day for Team Shiv.

Shiv why don't you remove all doubt and let everyone know who your "informer" is. Who's this person that told you about his nitrous setup?

Ahh that's right. You don't want to rat anyone out huh? Gotchya.

All that hidden dyno power you v3 guys have must be slowing things down.

Originally Posted by JB335

First Hotrod shows his VBOX times and shiv says bullshit you can't replicate that in real life.

So he replicates it, twice, at an event that Shiv was invited to.

Now Shiv says, bullshit, it's not stock, I need an inspection.

Hotrod replies, okay come check it out.

Awww now that's not good enough. I need to see it dyno'd.

This is the same guy that said last week dyno's arent accurate at proving how quick a car is. Remember? rev II has special unlocked power that dyno's can't even see.

^Do yourself a favor and don't post. You're the worst, or if you insist on it, have some class if you want to be respected in an argument.

I am noticing that there is a Socal >< Norcal theme to the tuner war, it's easy to believe people when you meet them face to face I guess, which is why Shiv was down in Socal in the first place.

That said, and completely separately: I have been in sales and sales management a good while and I will say that Hotrod's responses were very evasive sounding... just like a sales rep that knows he is wrong but still wants to save face and close a deal. Even if it is not in the best interest of his client.

Originally Posted by scalbert

The only thing I will add is congrats on some excellent times and traps.

+1 Hotrod, however you got there, it's an awesome timeslip and a faster trap than I have ever run. But posting it on this forum makes it political and open to interpretation.

In final, I will say after knowing Shiv, using his products and other tuners' products over the past 6 years, he is rarely wrong about these things. It's a shame that Hotrod didn't just go to the dyno...

[imoksoami]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

^Do yourself a favor and don't post. You're the worst.

I am noticing that there is a so-cal >< Norcal theme to the tuner war, it's easy to believe people when you meet them face to face I guess.

That said, and completely separately: I have been in sales and sales management a good while and I will say that Hotrod's responses were very evasive sounding... just like a sales rep that knows he is wrong but still wants to save face and close a deal.

Sales management for over 20 years here. I tell my guys that knocking the competition comes off as sour grapes. Personally I think if you are going to call a man a cheat you should have proof. Additionally if you call a man a cheat and he gives you an opportunity to prove it and you decline its time to STFU, period.

[stillclaimndp]

Originally Posted by imoksoami

Sales management for over 20 years here. I tell my guys that knocking the competition comes off as sour grapes.

Yes I am pretty confident that anyone who ever sold something or has had someone try to sell them something knows that. The point here is that Shiv was calling out a specific person, their setup, and their claimed result not a company or a product.

Originally Posted by imoksoami

Personally I think if you are going to call a man a cheat you should have proof. Additionally if you call a man a cheat and he gives you an opportunity to prove it and you decline its time to STFU, period.

This is an interesting manipulation of the events, but you aren't acknowledging that he could switch the parts around if Shiv just came for a simple inspection (which was conveniently scheduled during an event Shiv had planned for weeks and put time and money into with customers all doing the same and expecting him to be there) but he could not fake a dyno after an inspection. Facts speak louder than fraud. This whole thing smells just like a fraud we all knew named Claude and a shop called VIP tuning... History repeats itself after all.

See the events as you choose but I see one set of explanations that require faith, others that require fact, and I am not a religious man.

[maui86]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

Yes I am pretty confident that anyone who ever sold something or has had someone try to sell them something knows that. The point here is that Shiv was calling out a specific person, their setup, and their claimed result not a company or a product.



This is an interesting manipulation of the events, but you aren't acknowledging that he could switch the parts around if Shiv just came for a simple inspection (which was conveniently scheduled during an event Shiv had planned for weeks and put time and money into with customers all doing the same and expecting him to be there) but he could not fake a dyno after an inspection. Facts speak louder than fraud. This whole thing smells just like a fraud we all knew named Claude and a shop called VIP tuning... History repeats itself after all.

See the events as you choose but I see one set of explanations that require faith, others that require fact, and I am not a religious man.

+1 couldn't of said it better. still applaud the time though :-)

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

You know what guys?
We can go back and forth for pages and pages, but we will never know until there is some sort of proof will we?

Until then there will be speculation on one side, and there will be guarrantee on the other.

I say this...I say that Hotrod182 should go up to Sacramento and meet up with Shiv to have some fun runs.
I know it's a long drive, but the pros for Hotrod182 is that the conditions should be perfect and the odds of him trapping higher than Famoso would be high. IMO, I think he would have a good chance to trap 118 there.

This will give Shiv all day to find whatever he needs to find to prove that he has something different than just a tune.

Hotrod, are you up for it?

I had actually planned on going to Sacramento this weekend because I am so frustrated with the traction at Famoso. Then I found out it is supposed to rain in Sacramento this weekend. As it turns out, last weekend was the best time to go, but we were running at Famoso on the same day. Sacramento is only 12-4pm, but as it turns out, a half day of racing is what we had at Famoso anyways. If I don't go to the track somewhere next weekend, than that will be it. I plan on replacing the car next week with an 09 135i or something.

I don't know, but I think Shiv missed his chance of actually watching my car run. I could have taken a video of the speedometer, shown the accuracy of the speedo vs GPS, shown him the Vbox readout, this would of been a hell of a lot more accurate than extrapolating 1/4 mile times from a dyno! With a 50shot of nitrous, I would have been trapping over 120 mph, not just 117!


Mr5, I am really enjoying driving around town with this new map. 29miles range left of 104 Sunoco, put in 12 gallons of 91. I know its probably not wise to go 1/4 mile racing (although I was going to test tonight), this thing pulls like a mutha in the low, mid range. It is almost scary how fast you can leave cars standing still at an intersection!

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

Yes I am pretty confident that anyone who ever sold something or has had someone try to sell them something knows that. The point here is that Shiv was calling out a specific person, their setup, and their claimed result not a company or a product.



This is an interesting manipulation of the events, but you aren't acknowledging that he could switch the parts around if Shiv just came for a simple inspection (which was conveniently scheduled during an event Shiv had planned for weeks and put time and money into with customers all doing the same and expecting him to be there) but he could not fake a dyno after an inspection. Facts speak louder than fraud. This whole thing smells just like a fraud we all knew named Claude and a shop called VIP tuning... History repeats itself after all.

See the events as you choose but I see one set of explanations that require faith, others that require fact, and I am not a religious man.

I guess you must be on the NorCal bandwagon then. You tell me why in the hell I should make time to go drive 100 miles to meet Shiv on the last day of my weekend, after just driving 400 miles the day before, spending 10 hrs at the drag strip?? Believe me, if you have a bumper off, installed nitrous, etc, it will be evident if you look for every microscopic piece of evidence. I said you won't find a wrench mark, finger print, etc on any of the parts such as turbos, down pipes, bumpers, panels, etc. Hell, I have never even jacked up the car and crawled under it. I'm sure if he looked hard enough (which I am sure he would), he would absolutely confirm this). I for one don't find the run that remarkable.

I really looked forward to Shiv making a surprise visit. Me removing nitrous to appease him? Are you kidding me? I already said, I would do the runs, and let him inspect the car. Hell, we could have run the Procede Car, timed it, and then ran mine, and then inspected my car. Without having our personal drag strip, it doesnt get any more real than that. You say you can't trust the Vbox? Thats a good laugh. Probably more tolerance in any of a dozen factors than you will get with the VBox. As some people have already stated in this thread, it all adds up if you look at the facts. Its just that some people are too involved with the politics to know exactly what the technical side involves. I am surprised Shiv still doesn't get it. I absolutely told Shiv he had an unfair advantage compared to us SoCal guys by having a relatively great Sacramento track to run at. Conditions count for everything. He seemed to think I was talking BS. Well we finally had a day with a good DA, and I think I proved a point here about how much that can help a car. Again, I already knew because I run these times on the Vbox time after time in cold, sea level conditions. Of course Shiv thought that was BS too. GEE I must have some scuba tanks full of nitrous in my garage. Well as it turns out, I am getting rid of the car next week to either get a 135i, or something. I am not sure. I really don't even need two BMWs since it is really a car I got for my GF, and she doesn't even work 1/2 mile from here. I will start making more runs in the 08 coupe. It seems to have good low-midrange power, and sometimes traps decent. I somehow think the engine sounds like it makes a lot of resonance noise though. Kind of like a loud engine fan on an Chevy Astro Van, or something. I can't quite figure out if it is just a combination of sounds coupled with the louder coupe exhaust or something? The sedan engine just seems so smooth and willing. Pretty interesting though.

Flat out telling me I am running nitrous! I am still kind of laughing about that. Kind of flattering actually that a tuner thinks that is the only way I can be running that good. Did you watch the video of the very fast Procede Coupe running against me...go ask an nitrous expert to watch it closely, listen to the engine, etc. So when I am driving one handed video taping, and on a unstable surface, do you really think I would be doing that with a 50 shot kicking in? It is all very gradual, with the natural torque rich curve of my car and all the average power under the curve that counts.

And I will say it again, this same exact map I drove home on with a little over 91 octane is working great around town. I will try and get some times on this map with the low octane, (not recommended) all in the interest of scientific research!

[per]

Hi Hotrod, do you have any ide´about how many PSi your car is running , i mean the power is from boostpressure, fuel, air and timing.,Factory freak or not.
if it created by V3 or Jb3 doesn´t matter
And i find it very strange that the backpressure from the cats, doesnt seems to heatsoake your motor.
I have been testing different setups, and above 5000 rpm all other 335´s are loosing a lot of power on top if not open up intake and dp.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by per

Hi Hotrod, do you have any ide´about how many PSi your car is running , i mean the power is from boostpressure, fuel, air and timing.,Factory freak or not.
if it created by V3 or Jb3 doesn´t matter
And i find it very strange that the backpressure from the cats, doesnt seems to heatsoake your motor.
I have been testing different setups, and above 5000 rpm all other 335´s are loosing a lot of power on top if not open up intake and dp.

I don't know exactly because I don't have a boost gauge. But the same JB3 on Mr 5's car I believe was making 16psi, and less than the Procede V3 coupe car with similar mods. I think he was making over 16.5psi. The coupe trapped a little below 115mph. Mr5s car trapped a little bit above. I do know that on around 93 octane the car seems to run pretty good. I am curious, and the temps are the same outside right now, 48F or so. Tell you what, I am going to go out and do a run and see what happens! If it runs decently on this low octane, with this map, without any audible detenation, I will be pretty impressed!

[JeffL]

What a great thread. Pretty much seals the deal for me on which tune to buy. I wouldn't give Shiv one cent for anything what an @ssclown. Accept what the car runs based on the time slips and mods listed with near perfect conditions at the track, end of story. Trying to call someone out? Funny stuff.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I don't know exactly because I don't have a boost gauge. But the same JB3 on Mr 5's car I believe was making 16psi, and less than the Procede V3 coupe car with similar mods. I think he was making over 16.5psi. The coupe trapped a little below 115mph. Mr5s car trapped a little bit above. I do know that on around 93 octane the car seems to run pretty good. I am curious, and the temps are the same outside right now, 48F or so. Tell you what, I am going to go out and do a run and see what happens! If it runs decently on this low octane, with this map, without any audible detenation, I will be pretty impressed!

I was running the same thing as you and I was seeing pretty much 16 psi across the board.