[Carrera RSR]

For your enjoyment here are some lines received today by the service assistant

'The problem is Sir, your car is too shiny and will show up these kind of marks'

'All new cars have these marks from new. All you have done is polish and wax over them. All we have done is wash off your wax to reveal these marks. You will need to reapply your wax'

'Look at this black 5 series. All black cars have scratches' Pointing to a 2 1/2 year old car clearly in need of some tlc.

'Even this 08 plate black 3 series has swirl marks' Looked like a bunch of cats wearing sand paper dinner jackets had an orgy on the bonnet!!

Any way after I refused a 'full valet', they have agreed to machine polish within their bodyshop. I have agreed with the caveat that all swirls and defects are removed or an independent detailer will rectify the paint at their cost of approx £300. If their work is satisfactory then I am happy to reapply all the necessary products to seal and shine.

Let's hope they can do a good job?!

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by carrerarsr

For your enjoyment here are some lines received today by the service assistant

'The problem is Sir, your car is too shiny and will show up these kind of marks'

'All new cars have these marks from new. All you have done is polish and wax over them. All we have done is wash off your wax to reveal these marks. You will need to reapply your wax'

'Look at this black 5 series. All black cars have scratches' Pointing to a 2 1/2 year old car clearly in need of some tlc.

'Even this 08 plate black 3 series has swirl marks' Looked like a bunch of cats wearing sand paper dinner jackets had an orgy on the bonnet!!

Any way after I refused a 'full valet', they have agreed to machine polish within their bodyshop. I have agreed with the caveat that all swirls and defects are removed or an independent detailer will rectify the paint at their cost of approx £300. If their work is satisfactory then I am happy to reapply all the necessary products to seal and shine.

Let's hope they can do a good job?!

Just shows a total lack of respect for the customer, or are the dealers really that stupid?

[Holden_Caulfield04]

Originally Posted by carrerarsr

Let's hope they can do a good job?!

I have yet to see a dealership/production detailer do a good job at removing swirls. I have seen people happy with the work they had done, but it's generally because they don't know what to look for and the car was probably delivered in the shade (where even a hacked up car will look good with a quick and dirty wash with brushes). The simple fact is, if you don't have the skill and training to remove swirls, you won't have the ability.

If it were me, I would not allow any dealership to touch my exterior under any circumstances even if there was a direct financial benefit to doing so. The damage they can incur is far, far too great. Paint thickness is a finite resource.

[DeltaJet]

That "brush victim" looks suspiciously like it's sat in a dealership in a city in the South West. Am I correct? If so, it will probably be the same place that turned my paintwork into an icerink. It did not even cross my mind when I booked it in that they would make such a mess. I know Jet Black shows marks when a feather lands on it but I am able to wash my car with a sponge and leather without making the damn thing look grey!!!!!!

[Carrera RSR]

Originally Posted by DeltaJet

That "brush victim" looks suspiciously like it's sat in a dealership in a city in the South West. Am I correct? If so, it will probably be the same place that turned my paintwork into an icerink. It did not even cross my mind when I booked it in that they would make such a mess. I know Jet Black shows marks when a feather lands on it but I am able to wash my car with a sponge and leather without making the damn thing look grey!!!!!!

I think we both know who and where!!

Did you do anything about it or get it fixed?

[Porscha!]

This is no good at all!

Very surprised about your leather as well, again not a good show!

I hope your seat and your paintwork is sorted promptly, if not I would be making a formal complaint, did you tell the Service Manager about the use of those brushes on peoples cars?

[DeltaJet]

I didn't notice until the next day. I decided that the car needed a polish anyway so did it myself - muppet. I have vowed to take it elsewhere from now on though and request it not be washed. The problem is that unless you use a sponge and chamois the paint picks up marks really easy. Can anyone recommend a product that can be applied after polish to protect the paint further?

[Carrera RSR]

Originally Posted by DeltaJet

I didn't notice until the next day. I decided that the car needed a polish anyway so did it myself - muppet. I have vowed to take it elsewhere from now on though and request it not be washed. The problem is that unless you use a sponge and chamois the paint picks up marks really easy. Can anyone recommend a product that can be applied after polish to protect the paint further?

Don't use a sponge or a chamois on any paint more especially black. They both apply swirl marks to your car.

Visit detailingworld.co.uk for all advice about products and best practice

Many people will advise

Good shampoo applied with lambswool or microfibre mitts
A specific micro fibre drying towel
micro fibre polishing cloths

Good products actually make the cleaning far easier and rewarding

There are various brands of polish, sealants and waxes to use after you have washed. Search this forum and detailers world for more options

[LRS]

You guys are scarring me sh*tless!

I, like all of you, always insist that the dealer does not wash or clean the car in anyway whatsoever when it goes in for a service - I even put a sign on the inside of the windscreen stating this.

However, tomorrow the car has to go in for some body repair work (lorry driver decided to drive into my passenger door last week). How on earth can I now avoid the dreaded Brillo Pad cleaning result as body shop repairs always require a few car washes???

How can I insist that they only wash a certain part of the car and not another?

I guess I’ll just have to prepare myself for cat scratch fever all over my paintwork…

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by LRS

You guys are scarring me sh*tless!

I, like all of you, always insist that the dealer does not wash or clean the car in anyway whatsoever when it goes in for a service - I even put a sign on the inside of the windscreen stating this.

However, tomorrow the car has to go in for some body repair work (lorry driver decided to drive into my passenger door last week). How on earth can I now avoid the dreaded Brillo Pad cleaning result as body shop repairs always require a few car washes???

How can I insist that they only wash a certain part of the car and not another?

I guess I’ll just have to prepare myself for cat scratch fever all over my paintwork…

Wash it today. Inspect the car with the bodyshop manager when you drop it in and tell him/her how paticular you are. Pick up in daylight and go through the same process and if you are unhappy do not accept.

[Mark II]

Carrera: So sorry to hear of your problems, unfortunately I've heard of this many times and had it happen on several of my cars in the past it was partly for this reason that I moved away from dark paint colours (plus the fact that modern paints are less durable than they used to be).

Nowadays I always wash & vac my car before I take it to a dealer, then I tell the service receptionist my car must not be washed/valeted and must be returned in perfect condition. I even hang a yellow sign over the rear view mirror which says "Please DO NOT WASH or VALET - thank you."

I guess some dealers may think I'm an awkward sod and completely uptight about my cars but frankly I couldn't give a sh*t - it's my property, I'm an enthusiast and I paid good money to buy a prestige car (in BMW's case - 'The Ultimate Driving Machine') and then paid an exorbitant hourly rate as well, so the very least I ought to be able to expect is for my car to be returned in at least as good a condition as it was left with them.

Praise the good dealers - give the bad ones hell!!

Best of luck

[Ant Man]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

If the latter is the case, surely it's worth BMW addressing this imbalance as they must know that their paintwork is soft.

Quite the reverse in fact, the paint is too brittle.

[Ant Man]

Originally Posted by carrerarsr

For your enjoyment here are some lines received today by the service assistant

'The problem is Sir, your car is too shiny and will show up these kind of marks'

'All new cars have these marks from new. All you have done is polish and wax over them. All we have done is wash off your wax to reveal these marks. You will need to reapply your wax'

'Look at this black 5 series. All black cars have scratches' Pointing to a 2 1/2 year old car clearly in need of some tlc.

'Even this 08 plate black 3 series has swirl marks' Looked like a bunch of cats wearing sand paper dinner jackets had an orgy on the bonnet!!

Any way after I refused a 'full valet', they have agreed to machine polish within their bodyshop. I have agreed with the caveat that all swirls and defects are removed or an independent detailer will rectify the paint at their cost of approx £300. If their work is satisfactory then I am happy to reapply all the necessary products to seal and shine.

Let's hope they can do a good job?!

I really hope they repair it to your satisfaction.....the useless halfwits

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by Ant Man

Quite the reverse in fact, the paint is too brittle.

Surely brittle would mean the paint would crack under stress which is not the case.

Water based paints are used for 'environmental' purposes although the end product does not have to result in soft paint to the degree that some manufacturers are producing. That said, many products have been developed to 'compliment' the water based paintwork we all now have on our cars.

Bottom line being that any numpty washing a customers car should be trained (monkeys) and supplied with the appropriate products to do the job properly.

[Holden_Caulfield04]

Originally Posted by DeltaJet

I didn't notice until the next day. I decided that the car needed a polish anyway so did it myself - muppet. I have vowed to take it elsewhere from now on though and request it not be washed. The problem is that unless you use a sponge and chamois the paint picks up marks really easy. Can anyone recommend a product that can be applied after polish to protect the paint further?

I'm sure you don't want to delve into the whole detailing process so here are some easy options:

Wax

Collinite 476S (paint should be polished or cleansed before using this wax)

Sealant

Zaino AIO followed by either Z5 or Z2
Klasse AIO followed by Klasse SG
Optimum Poli-Seal + Opti-Seal

You would do well with any of these choices. Collinite is the only natural wax that has the durability to withstand winter like a sealant. Zaino is a popular and durable choice, and I'm sure similar durability can be had from Optimum and Klasse.

If it were me, I'd either go for Collinite or Optimum for their ease of use.

[Mark II]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Surely brittle would mean the paint would crack under stress which is not the case.

You're right Helen.

From personal experience I think most of the paints used on German cars such as BMW, Porsche, Audi, and Volkswagen could be described as 'soft' but it's actually the Polyurethane clearcoat that is the real problem in relation to swirls and scratches.

The approach from the German mfrs seems to be that a softer more pliant paint system is more resistant to impact damage - such as stone chips, which is something they wanted to avoid (esp from use on the Autobahn) and is therefore better than a hard/brittle finish.

One of the better finishes is now used by Mercedes who use Ceramiclear - the PPG derived nanotech ceramic clearcoat, which is supposed to be far more durable in relation to swirls and scratches (I understand Ferrari and Nissan have also adopted a similar system).

Personally I wish all mfrs would move to this - the only downside is that once you do get a scratch in Ceramiclear it requires specialised polish and a different technique to remove but I'd rather that than a car that scratches too easily.

I did look into having a previous car refinished in Ceramiclear but the cost was prohibitive.

[Carrera RSR]

Someone has got it in for me or my car. Drove home late last night. Very cold and the gritters were out. Came up behind one on the M18 but he wasn't spreading. Decided to floor it past him. Just as I got a few feet behind he switched on the spreader. F**king coating the front of the car up to windscreen level with grit.

Not looking forward to cleaning the car on Sunday. Swirl marks, scratches and stone chips. Don't you just love trying to keep your car in 'as new' condition

[mistry]

I hate gritters, I bet the driver saw you coming and waiting for the right moment. Jealous c***s!!

I had some arseh*le decide to leave thier rubbish on my bonnet the other day. WTF.

Anyway, I hope the gritter didn't do too much damage, I've driven past them in older cars before now without much visable damage.

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by Mark II

You're right Helen.

From personal experience I think most of the paints used on German cars such as BMW, Porsche, Audi, and Volkswagen could be described as 'soft' but it's actually the Polyurethane clearcoat that is the real problem in relation to swirls and scratches.

The approach from the German mfrs seems to be that a softer more pliant paint system is more resistant to impact damage - such as stone chips, which is something they wanted to avoid (esp from use on the Autobahn) and is therefore better than a hard/brittle finish.

One of the better finishes is now used by Mercedes who use Ceramiclear - the PPG derived nanotech ceramic clearcoat, which is supposed to be far more durable in relation to swirls and scratches (I understand Ferrari and Nissan have also adopted a similar system).

Interesting points about Merc paintwork Mark. The bloke who recently detailed my car commented on the fact that the paint was quite hard, which I have noticed compared to my previously owned BMW's. This is not to say that I am completely without stone chips. He also confirmed that Merc paint was hard in his experience as a detailer. I didn't have any swirlmarks at all though, which I was surprised and pleased about obviously. The first owner of the car must have looked after it well. Since owning the car the OPC have washed it at least 3 times for me, yet still no swirl marks. So, based on my recent experience with dealers, they are capable of washing our pride and joy properly.

Originally Posted by carrerarsr

Someone has got it in for me or my car. Drove home late last night. Very cold and the gritters were out. Came up behind one on the M18 but he wasn't spreading. Decided to floor it past him. Just as I got a few feet behind he switched on the spreader. F**king coating the front of the car up to windscreen level with grit.

Not looking forward to cleaning the car on Sunday. Swirl marks, scratches and stone chips. Don't you just love trying to keep your car in 'as new' condition

Oh hell! I can honestly see why you think this way, that is so friggin annoying!!! How many instances is that then? If it's 3 then........

You weren't coming back from Hull were you? If so, you don't seem to have much luck when you come up here.