[Nexus-6]

Howdy folks -

I've been experimenting the last few days with the latest 12-15 V3.1 maps...like many, I'm running the following combo :

V3.1 (12-15 maps)
Dual cone intake
Catless DPs (ar in my case)
Helix IC
Forge DVs

But...I'm running the stock exhaust (post DPs) which means the secondary cats are intact. Why? In my case, simply because it keeps my 3 year old daughter happy and nobody pays attention. Yes, I like sleepers.

Anyhow, I've tried all 3 stages. I'm seeing 15.0 ~ 15.5 with stage 3, and 12.5~13.5 with stage 1, but I swear that stage 1 feels best and most responsive around town (low/mid level throttle). Up top I'm actually finding little seat of the pants difference between the 3 maps (quantified loosely by measured mph at the end of the ol' private track here). The only tangible data I've gathered during comparison testing (besides higher boost with the higher stages) is that my around town, my mpg averages 16 with stage 3, but closer to 18.5 mpg with stage 1 (same amount of time on each stage, same sort of driving) so apparently there is more fuel in the mix (perhaps too much if running the secondary cats and thus the limited differences in top end?).

The reason I'm asking is because I'm unclear on the official stance regarding tunes + upgraded intercoolers. I've read that custom tuning isn't required for for the intercooler to do it's thing, or to the best of its ability, but the fact that stage 3 specifies the presence of an intercooler makes me think that there is something to be gained by addressing it in specific (vs a passive presence). Is there any reason a map designed for nearly, but not quite the full enchilada (intake, catless dps, intercooler) but with a single set of cats isn't worth the effort? If there's nothing to be gained by addressing an aftermarket IC specifically in the tune, that's acceptable but I'm curious why some tunes, such as Helix, appear to draft seperate maps for the inclusion of an intercooler. To play my own devils advocate, the fact that completely otherwise stock cars appear to gain power with aftermarket ICs indicates that tuning for them may in fact have little to no gain.

All this surmising may be a moot point as it appears (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that the deltas between stage 1 and stage 3 on the dyno is anywhere from just 10 to 15 whp. If I'm honest, I'm just interested in making sure that the intercooler is being taken advantage of fully - if this is already the case, I'm happy.

But I'd like to hear some official chatter on this from Shiv and others - Shiv suggested running stage 3 to someone a while back that was running an aftermarket IC but still running the secondary cats, but there's been some differing opinions on which stage is best for those of us still running secondary cats (either stock or high flow cats).

[ohsnapITZe92]

+1

hmmm kinda interested as well ^

[Andras]

Originally Posted by Nexus-6

Howdy folks -

I've been experimenting the last few days with the latest 12-15 V3.1 maps...like many, I'm running the following combo :

V3.1 (12-15 maps)
Dual cone intake
Catless DPs (ar in my case)
Helix IC
Forge DVs

But...I'm running the stock exhaust (post DPs) which means the secondary cats are intact. Why? In my case, simply because it keeps my 3 year old daughter happy and nobody pays attention. Yes, I like sleepers.

Anyhow, I've tried all 3 stages. I'm seeing 15.0 ~ 15.5 with stage 3, and 12.5~13.5 with stage 1, but I swear that stage 1 feels best and most responsive around town (low/mid level throttle). Up top I'm actually finding little seat of the pants difference between the 3 maps (quantified loosely by measured mph at the end of the ol' private track here). The only tangible data I've gathered during comparison testing (besides higher boost with the higher stages) is that my around town, my mpg averages 16 with stage 3, but closer to 18.5 mpg with stage 1 (same amount of time on each stage, same sort of driving) so apparently there is more fuel in the mix (perhaps too much if running the secondary cats and thus the limited differences in top end?).

The reason I'm asking is because I'm unclear on the official stance regarding tunes + upgraded intercoolers. I've read that custom tuning isn't required for for the intercooler to do it's thing, or to the best of its ability, but the fact that stage 3 specifies the presence of an intercooler makes me think that there is something to be gained by addressing it in specific (vs a passive presence). Is there any reason a map designed for nearly, but not quite the full enchilada (intake, catless dps, intercooler) but with a single set of cats isn't worth the effort? If there's nothing to be gained by addressing an aftermarket IC specifically in the tune, that's acceptable but I'm curious why some tunes, such as Helix, appear to draft seperate maps for the inclusion of an intercooler. To play my own devils advocate, the fact that completely otherwise stock cars appear to gain power with aftermarket ICs indicates that tuning for them may in fact have little to no gain.

All this surmising may be a moot point as it appears (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that the deltas between stage 1 and stage 3 on the dyno is anywhere from just 10 to 15 whp. If I'm honest, I'm just interested in making sure that the intercooler is being taken advantage of fully - if this is already the case, I'm happy.

But I'd like to hear some official chatter on this from Shiv and others - Shiv suggested running stage 3 to someone a while back that was running an aftermarket IC but still running the secondary cats, but there's been some differing opinions on which stage is best for those of us still running secondary cats (either stock or high flow cats).

Well, I think the main question is wheter or not run a stage 2 map if you have an open air filter element and catless downpipes more than running a stage 3 having an upgraded intercooler as well.
I mean, upload a stage 3 is the only chance to squeeze the best out of the beefed-up intercooler, installing one and not running a stage 3 is like stopping half way between start and goal IMHO.
Besides, Shiv told pretty much anybody here that having catless downpipes and stock exhaust (or high flow cats exhaust, like the AE I have) needs running a stage 2 map.
Being the dude already enough busy to keep everybody satisfied I don't think he just throws few ideas around in order to have some potential customers with troubles on the road.
I run a Stage 2 and as soon as the non doomsday non beta stage 3 "game changer" map will come up I'll be running that

[scalbert]

Shiv mentioned that Stage 2 is fine in the case of stated modifications.

[Nexus-6]

One last thought on this, while I'm thinking of it.

If the only difference between stage 2 and stage 3 is the requirement of an aftermarket intercooler, there is something unique and specific in that map to the addition of the intercooler. Meaning, there has to be some gravy for us IC users.

Is the assumption that the majority of the people who install a new IC also go fully catless?

Scalbert, I've seen both cases of suggestion. In particular, here is where Shiv suggests using stage 3, not stage 2, for those running an intercooler but with secondary cats :

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=41

This is actually precisely why I began this thread - there are a number of conflicting views on which map to use with the variations of modifications we all have.

[scalbert]

Without the secondary cats removed, I would stick with Stage 2. Granted, you can run Stage 3 with the slightly higher boost, but it is running higher heat and may suffer in warmer temperatures. That is where the differences in statements are derived, the ambient conditions. With you in Texas, you do not see the extreme low conditions the notrth gets so I would play it safe and just run Stage 2 for now especially while in Beta mode.