Detailimage: what would make clay scratch?

Eliminator · 02-15-2009, 10:38 AM

Question for the Detailimage guys -- The car (M3) is about 4 months old and when it was new i used the blue clay successfully and fell in love. After 3 months of some pretty harsh winter, I cleaned the car well (3 times in about 2 hours) and found some contamination that I could not remove. The contaminates were uniformly layed down, mostly on the horizontal surfaces as if layed down by a spray gun. On a clean car, the reflection showed these dots well -- opague and very evenly spread over the car. Smooth to the touch, but you could feel the gritty, grabby feel with a finger; not glassy smooth. So I took out the claymagic and lubricant and went to work on a small section of the hood. In less than 1 minute, and maybe 1 square foot, I reallized I was making a disaster with scratches and the clay would nearly disintegrate and gum up, sticking to the paint and turning black. Wierd stuff, stay with me. In panic mode now, i took out the Klasse All in One and this cut through the "contaminates" chemically and and I was able to get them off. Then finished the job with Klasse SG and did a fairly nice job getting the scratches out of the hood (still there, but I'll polish in the spring). I'm am now terrified of clay and my question is "what the hell was that stuff on my car"? I checked my wifes car and others at work where I park. Nope. Just me. Any idea what that was? I have to avoid it, it was horribly tenaicious. On the glass, I could move it around, but only the Klasse could break it. Alcohol/water would not touch it. Since I was trying to avoid polishes, through relentless miticulous hand wash only and no swirls (so far), can you recommend a polish I can use without a PC or any rotary machine?

Thanks so much,
Signed,
Panic mode - Detroit

Detailed Image · 02-15-2009, 02:34 PM

Interesting scenario your describing. A couple questions come to mind about the clay you were using. Was the clay the same block of clay you used in the past or was it a fresh piece? When you stored the clay, how was it stored? What I'll do is store it along with some quick detailer to keep it from hardening up.

Whenever you clay, micro-marring or scratches can be a possible results depending on the contamination you are trying to remove. I'm assuming you used plenty of clay bar lubricant on the area you were cleaning. Not using enough clay bar lube can cause the clay to break up on the surface as you mentioned.

Chances are it was the contamination just being too stubborn on your paint and the clay didn't have enough bite if you were using a fine grade bar. The contamination could have cut through the clay if you were using thin pieces.

I'm interested to know what the contamination was too.

As far as a polish to use by hand, you could try something like Meguiars ScratchX which can be found locally. Most abrasive polishes are going to be optimized for use with a buffer, but you can still get alright results if you take your time and put some elbow grease into one. I don't typically recommend using more than a finishing polish by hand because when the abrasives become too large, you can easily grind them into your paint, which just creates even more work removing.

Hope this helps a little.

George

Eliminator · 02-15-2009, 04:22 PM

Thanks George. The clay was a fresh piece as I cut it in half and this was the second half. It was stored in its little box with about 1/2 ounce detailer that covered the bottom of the box. I sprayed the clay pretty good before putting it away. It did freeze pretty good though as the temps dropped to about 15F even in the garage.
I'm just glad the speckles are gone and re-gain confidence in clay as I take another shot at it in the summer.
Thanks for the tip on the ScratchX, I saw it on the shelf locally and thoght it was a gimmick as it seemed to promise too much and was too nicely packaged for consumers, but i'll give it a go.

drvai · 02-15-2009, 06:03 PM

Try to use real lube.

I had a similar problem in my car with clay magic (fine grade).

Now, I use the real lube and works great.

picus · 02-15-2009, 07:23 PM

Sounds like it was cold when you clayed? Cold clay can definitely cause some micro marring when used. I like to use hot water + qd as a lubricant, and try to avoid claying at all when it's cold. In general, though, sometimes marring can't be helped when claying. In some cases the contamination alone will cause some marring, and you need to follow up with an abrasive.

02-15-2009, 10:38 AM	#1
Eliminator First Lieutenant 33 Rep 311 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 SSII 6M, '87 911 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Detailimage: what would make clay scratch? Question for the Detailimage guys -- The car (M3) is about 4 months old and when it was new i used the blue clay successfully and fell in love. After 3 months of some pretty harsh winter, I cleaned the car well (3 times in about 2 hours) and found some contamination that I could not remove. The contaminates were uniformly layed down, mostly on the horizontal surfaces as if layed down by a spray gun. On a clean car, the reflection showed these dots well -- opague and very evenly spread over the car. Smooth to the touch, but you could feel the gritty, grabby feel with a finger; not glassy smooth. So I took out the claymagic and lubricant and went to work on a small section of the hood. In less than 1 minute, and maybe 1 square foot, I reallized I was making a disaster with scratches and the clay would nearly disintegrate and gum up, sticking to the paint and turning black. Wierd stuff, stay with me. In panic mode now, i took out the Klasse All in One and this cut through the "contaminates" chemically and and I was able to get them off. Then finished the job with Klasse SG and did a fairly nice job getting the scratches out of the hood (still there, but I'll polish in the spring). I'm am now terrified of clay and my question is "what the hell was that stuff on my car"? I checked my wifes car and others at work where I park. Nope. Just me. Any idea what that was? I have to avoid it, it was horribly tenaicious. On the glass, I could move it around, but only the Klasse could break it. Alcohol/water would not touch it. Since I was trying to avoid polishes, through relentless miticulous hand wash only and no swirls (so far), can you recommend a polish I can use without a PC or any rotary machine? Thanks so much, Signed, Panic mode - Detroit
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02-15-2009, 02:34 PM	#2
Detailed Image 373 Rep 5,052 Posts Drives: Detailed by Detailed Image Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Albany, NY iTrader: (5)	Interesting scenario your describing. A couple questions come to mind about the clay you were using. Was the clay the same block of clay you used in the past or was it a fresh piece? When you stored the clay, how was it stored? What I'll do is store it along with some quick detailer to keep it from hardening up. Whenever you clay, micro-marring or scratches can be a possible results depending on the contamination you are trying to remove. I'm assuming you used plenty of clay bar lubricant on the area you were cleaning. Not using enough clay bar lube can cause the clay to break up on the surface as you mentioned. Chances are it was the contamination just being too stubborn on your paint and the clay didn't have enough bite if you were using a fine grade bar. The contamination could have cut through the clay if you were using thin pieces. I'm interested to know what the contamination was too. As far as a polish to use by hand, you could try something like Meguiars ScratchX which can be found locally. Most abrasive polishes are going to be optimized for use with a buffer, but you can still get alright results if you take your time and put some elbow grease into one. I don't typically recommend using more than a finishing polish by hand because when the abrasives become too large, you can easily grind them into your paint, which just creates even more work removing. Hope this helps a little. George
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02-15-2009, 04:22 PM	#3
Eliminator First Lieutenant 33 Rep 311 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 SSII 6M, '87 911 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Thanks George. The clay was a fresh piece as I cut it in half and this was the second half. It was stored in its little box with about 1/2 ounce detailer that covered the bottom of the box. I sprayed the clay pretty good before putting it away. It did freeze pretty good though as the temps dropped to about 15F even in the garage. I'm just glad the speckles are gone and re-gain confidence in clay as I take another shot at it in the summer. Thanks for the tip on the ScratchX, I saw it on the shelf locally and thoght it was a gimmick as it seemed to promise too much and was too nicely packaged for consumers, but i'll give it a go.
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02-15-2009, 06:03 PM	#4
drvai Major 151 Rep 1,274 Posts Drives: E92 M3 AW Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	Try to use real lube. I had a similar problem in my car with clay magic (fine grade). Now, I use the real lube and works great.
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02-15-2009, 07:23 PM	#5
picus Brigadier General 127 Rep 4,172 Posts Drives: e92 SG 335i Coupe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto, ON iTrader: (0)	Sounds like it was cold when you clayed? Cold clay can definitely cause some micro marring when used. I like to use hot water + qd as a lubricant, and try to avoid claying at all when it's cold. In general, though, sometimes marring can't be helped when claying. In some cases the contamination alone will cause some marring, and you need to follow up with an abrasive.
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