[Ilma]

Finally getting the hang of using the Procede data logging software.

Here is one of my first attempts to datalog.

I am running the Stage 2 NON-Doomsday map with User Torque set to 90%. I am MSD81 and DCI using 94 Octane.
No other mods.

Any comments or suggestions as to what to look for would be much appreciated.

Overall, I think it looks good, but am not an expert by any means.

Thanks!

[scalbert]

Looks good.

[Tobias1980]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Looks good.

May I ask you to elaborate a bit please!

[OpenFlash]

Looks good. Boost peaks at ~5800rpm with the only dip being around ~4200rpm where the valve timing phase shift occurs (totally normal). Boost tapers off quickly above 6700rpm in time for the rev cut. And the gear selection is tall enough to make the log slow and stable.

Shiv

[Weefer335i]

Looks really good.

[Ilma]

Thanks for that feedback guys! I appreciate your insight.

The car feels very strong and is very enjoyable to drive.....even at part throttle..lol.

What are the signs to watch out for when you have taken things too far?

a) Throttle plate closure?
b) Boost oscillation?
c) More timing being pulled?
d) Any or all of the above!

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Thanks for that feedback guys! I appreciate your insight.

The car feels very strong and is very enjoyable to drive.....even at part throttle..lol.

What are the signs to watch out for when you have taken things too far?

Throttle plate closure?
Boost oscillation?
More timing being pulled?

The logs show throttle pedal angle, not actual throttle butterfly angle so you wont see closure there (unless you lift your foot).

The timing logs show one component of the PROcede's timing correction, not total timing so you wont see unexpected retard there.

You will be able to see/log boost oscillations under certain conditions but they should be minor and short in duration.

With CANbus integration, we are looking at bringing more useful data right from the ECU (knock retard, oil/coolant temps, throttle angle, etc,.)

Shiv

[Ilma]

Ok Thanks for that Shiv and Steve too!
I'm going to go and try to log some of the BT data such as coolant temps, ignition advance etc.

This stuff is really neat.

[cn555ic]

wow running non-doomsday with a MDS81 and intake onlly ..and using stage 2....Your graphs show it running nicely, but confused here...shouldn't you be running stage 0 and doomsday? I guess I will be running stage 2, myself soon because my boost only goes as high as 13.4 on stage 1 UT set to 92%....I will see what stage 2 will do for me!

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

wow running non-doomsday with a MDS81 and intake onlly ..and using stage 2....Your graphs show it running nicely, but confused here...shouldn't you be running stage 0 and doomsday? I guess I will be running stage 2, myself soon because my boost only goes as high as 13.4 on stage 1 UT set to 92%....I will see what stage 2 will do for me!

I think the 94 octane and the cold ambients (19F) are big contributing factors.

The log shows that my intake temperature climbs to only 80 degrees F (26C).

Hell, I don't even need an aftermarket intercooler in this weather!

Might not be so easy to pull this off in the summer though...lol.

That VK Motorworks FMIC is looking attractive for a spring project......wish they would release the 135 version already.

Going from stage 1 to stage 2 added about a pound of boost up top. But it's the bottom end on the Non-Doomsday maps that really makes the biggest difference.

These engines are designed to produce so much power down low that it's a shame to waste it on a Doomsday map.

But then again....I have a Bavarian Technic in case I throw a code.

So far, so good......and I have been flogging it!

[Ilma]

So now that I have mastered? (lol) the procede software and the car seems dialed in.....I tried logging boost targets with the BT scanning tool to see what happens to the throttle plate in terms of closure and torque targeting.

I thought you might like to see the graphs I created from the csv file plotting three parameters:

1) Target Boost Pressure (kPa)
2) Pressure in front of throttle valve (kPa)
3) Throttle valve sensor 1 (which I interpret as the throttle plate position)

It was a pull starting in second gear (not full throttle right away) and shifting into third.

This plot is with the Stage 2 Procede map 6AT and I don't have downpipes but do have DCI and 94 octane plus 19F ambients - which help a lot.

The boost values are in kPascals, not psi, but it's the relativity that matters.

Since these readings are from the BT tool, these are probably not the true boost pressures, but I gather that this is where target boost vs actual boost overshoot can result in throttle closures.


The yellow line is throttle closure and I have converted it to read as 100% for an 80 degree TPS.

Second gear is a little wobbly, but I didn't hammer the throttle.....it was just a rolling start with progressively more throttle.
I then help wide open into third....but had to let off before redline because I was running out of road....lol!




BTW the above dip in throttle lasted for about 0.5 sec according to the time stamp

[runningman]

So how much throttle closure is considered acceptable before it is a big problem?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by runningman

So how much throttle closure is considered acceptable before it is a big problem?

That's a good question......I don't know the answer, but some have suggested that up until the point you inhibit the DME's ability to intervene and compromise safety mechanisms.

Of course, that then begs the next question as to whether significant spikes due to missed boost targets are considered safety issues that require DME intervention - I would think so.

But if there is excessive intervention because actual boost offset is not optimally mapped to targets, then I think you would start to have some degree of undesirable throttle plate activity.

I think the obvious solution is to map actual boost to boost targets as closely as possible. In fact you can see my third gear graph higher up in this post, that actual boost is consistently held just below the target boost, resulting in no spikes and no requirement for throttle closure.

But the important point here is that we can now begin to measure this activity with actual throttle plate data instead if inferring it from dyno plots or trap speeds. Such measurements are just too coarse when you consider that the time stamps on throttle closure activity are fractions of a second.

Here is a graph (not mine) of throttle closure supposedly taken on a stock car.

This was posted over on N54tech when this whole debate first emerged.





This is a plot of throttle closure on a JB3 MSD81. As you all know, Terry is currently working on the newest version 1.3 chip to improve upon this even more so.