[Nas23]

I have a few concerns and will hopefully receive feedback/comments

Car: 2009 328xi Coupe. Was a loaner car for the dealer.

Packages/Options:
Premium
Cold Weather
Automatic Transmission
Navigation
iPod
HD Radio
Satellite Prep
*Not a Certified Pre-Owned*

Dealer Advertised Price:
$41,000

Mileage:
7,000 miles

1. Lease or Purchase:
Should I consider purchasing a car that has been used as a loaner? I want to go in with the goal if getting the car to a price of $38,000. However, I'm hesitant to how the car was driven from Day 1. Not sure if people would have broken it in properly. And how much car was given to the car. Is this more paranoia due to reading a few stories online (at various forums re: loaners)?

The benefits of leasing (36 months) IMO are: 3 years remaining on the factory warrenty and free maintainance for those 3 years. On top of that, if there is an issue with the car, I only have it for 3 years with everything covered. By the time the lease is up, the new 3 will soon be due.

2. What offer should I make?
What does one think is a fair offer to this car? My goal is to go in and try to get the car to a price of $38,000. Is that a fair price? Is the dealer giving me a good price already?

3. Leasing. 36 months, 12,000 miles/year
Is the current money factor of 0.0015, correct? And the residual of 60%? Is there a PDF I can download of this, or a link, to show as 'proof' in my negotiations? I have seen these numbers, but do not recall where.

How does the Multiple Security Deposit work? Do I pay upfront about 7 months worth of payments? So if my lease is $400, I pay $2800 upfront to decrease my money factor?

Is it possible to pay the entire lease up front? If so, is this beneficial? I believe it was Edmunds that said this is not a strategic move. However, the cost of the lease overall for that span would be less, correct?

I want to thank everyone who has helped me throughout the past few weeks. I hope the car is in fine condition when I check it out tomorrow, and I can come with a good deal. I was leaning toward another entry level luxury car last week, due to getting a great deal on it (new car). However, I want an E92.

[a14lee]

That's a terrible deal. Invoice on a brand new car specced like that is 42235. With 7k miles, I would treat that car as being a year old already. Even conservatively speaking, it would qualify as a 6 month old used car. Edmunds puts the depreciation on a 328xi coupe at 12.5k in the first year. So that should put that car between 30k (one year old) and 36k (6 months old).

Seconds, it's worse than a used car, because it was a loaner. Some people (not all people, but some) abuse the crap out of loaners. Think about the last time you rented a car. Did you treat it was well as you treat your own vehicle?

For me personally, I wouldn't buy a loaner car if the dealer offered it to me at half price.

As far as leasing goes, leasing is never as cheap as buying a car outright. The benefits of the extra money you spend on a lease are that you get a new car every 3 years, so you have to decide if you're willing to pay for that luxury. You get he same warranty and free maintenance with a new car as you do a leased car, so I don't understand the first part of your benefits of leasing sentence.

Everyone seems to think that of the three main packages, ZSP is the only essential package to get. You could get a brand new 328xi coupe with ZSP and MT for less than 38k. If I were you, I would pass on the loaner car, and look for a better bargain CPO car, or order a bare bones new car.

[kgb1637]

Yeah, what he said, don't do it.

[Nas23]

Thank you guys. Is there a number I should even offer, to make this a good deal? Or should I look toward a new car? I'm sure I'll land the right car/deal soon, it's a matter of just finding it and working it with dealers. I'm going to find out lease quotes on new cars tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help everyone. Appreciate it.

[Nas23]

Edmunds Invoice On that Car would be: 44,465

[rickjames193]

start at 33k and put your limit at 35.5k

[a14lee]

Seriously, don't even offer on the loaner. You can get a lot more car in a CPO, that will have a longer warranty on it. I found an 07 335i sedan with 2ok miles on it with several option packages for 29.9k when i was shopping for my car. 35.5k is way too much to pay for a loaner. 33k is way too much to pay for a loaner.

[TL]

DON'T DO IT!!!! Loaners are trouble and people tend to beat the hell out of loaner cars...plus it's not even a CPO. so definitely walk away from it unless they're offering 30% - 40% off of the listing price....which i don't believe they will cause they're always going to be a sucker who would get it...just MHO

[Angry3]

I'll take the counterpoint here. IMO the biggest problem with buying this car isn't the use/abuse it's had (it's a 328, and contrary to popular opinion most people don't make it a point to beat the crap out of these cars), it's that the dealer isn't going to give you enough of a discount to make it worthwhile to buy this car instead of an ordered, 0 mile 2010 model.

Leasing is the way to go on a car like this assuming you're a good candidate for it, the 3 coupe MFs and residuals make them the best leases BMW has right now IMHO. If the dealer will give you a price 3K or so below invoice with base MF I would absolutely consider leasing it if it's in good shape. The car has a full warranty and maintenance, it should run fine for you during the lease, then you hand it back to them.

MSDs are a great use of money, if you have 3-4K sitting around that you can afford to be without for 3 years. Think of them as a near risk-free investment that returns 9-11% depending on how the numbers shake out. The only negative to them IMO is they make it more difficult to get your lease assumed if you decide you want out of the car (most people looking to assume aren't willing and/or able to hand over $3-4K at the front end of the assumption).

The 1-pay lease option isn't a good deal to me, you only get a break of .0015 on the MF for putting out a lot of money up front that's at risk if the car is totaled. Do a traditional lease with as many MSDs as you can comfortably afford.

The problem with buying the car is 6-9 months of the warranty and maintenance are gone, and you're basically paying 95% of the price of a fresh, 0 mile ordered car that's "used" even though the title and dealer will say otherwise. Even at $3K under invoice with the promotional financing the car isn't a great deal to me.

There are lots of things to consider, and I think lots of folks have a prejudice toward leasing and loaner cars that isn't really justified. Admittedly I would probably never buy a twin-turbo former loaner, but I just don't think it's as big of a deal with a 328. It all depends on condition. In the end, the car is very nice, well equipped, and IMO is worth considering if you like it and the numbers are right.

Good luck, let us know what you decide.

[SpmnE9zero]

The noise you hear when someone gets a wrong answer on a game show! Try again!

Oh myyya, I retract my previous statement.

I just checked Manheim, they are still going for $37,925.00 with 6700 miles, so maybe not a terrible deal (because the one at the dealer is probably dent free and still meticulous) but not getting a woody for it either.

As others have stated, I think I would still buy a brand new one with zero miles, good chance one of us gearheads got our hands on that car once or twice and really just, well

Tip: When in doubt, pull out!

[Octet]

Think you have gotten some good advise...

If I were you I'd go to the BMWUSA.com web site and
look at the model search function, which will show you
what various dealers are offering there CPO's at.

CPO is a good possible way to go, with an extended BMW warranty.

FYI, unless a loaner is a smoking deal, don't do it.

[Nas23]

First off, thanks to all of you that have helped me in this thread and the others I have stared the past few weeks. Really appreciate everyone's input.

Regarding the loaner, I would have likely leased it due to it being a loaner and this way the warrenty (3 years and approx. 3 months remaining) would have covered it. I would not have bought the loaner, since it is a loaner. Just a fear in the back of my head, despite people may or may not abusing it.

I drove it today, it drove fine. However, it had a weird smell to it. I sensed this immediately as I sat in. The BMW employee denied any scent. I have not smelled this scent, which was tolerable yet not desireable, in any car ever. On top of that, the dealer did not budge on his advertised price. I had pretty much made up my mind on *not* going for the car once I sat inside and smelled it.

Today I have driven a new 328xi. I have discussed deals with 3 various dealers. I would not put money down, however, my family is more-so in favor for that move. I have advised them that it isn't the best idea, especially if (God forbid) it is totaled.

The cars are very similarily equipped. The price of these cars are between $47,700 and $48,350.

Car 1:
Premium
Cold
Auto
Navigation
iPod
Metallic Paint
Sticker:$47,700
Sale: $45,000

Car 2:
Same as Car 1
Add: Sport, Paddles
Sticker:$48,350
Sale: $45,750

Car 3:
Same as Car 2, minus Metallic Paint
Sticker: $48,100
Sale: $45,570

How do I rate as far as "Buying Price" goes?

The lease prices of this car are all within $15 of each other. At this point, I would go with Car 3, due to color, options, and being the cheapest. It's the most desirable color out of the three for me, and most eqipped (equal to Car 2).

I have discussed lease deals with the following details:
Money Factor: .00135
Residual: 60%
7 Multiple Security Deposits bringing the money factor to .00086
$1000 BMW Lease Rebate

I am unsure to put money down or not. However, if I put a large amount down, I save $1500 over the 36 months.

[Nas23]

Originally Posted by Nas23

I have discussed lease deals with the following details:
Money Factor: .00135
Residual: 60%
7 Multiple Security Deposits bringing the money factor to .00086
$1000 BMW Lease Rebate

I am unsure to put money down or not. However, if I put a large amount down, I save $1500 over the 36 months.

This Car (Car 1 or Car 3, basically the same price):
With $7500 down, 7 Multiple Security Deposits (MSD), Monthly Payment: $300
Without $7500, but 7 MSD, Monthly Payment: $550

Talked down the buying price as much as I could, prior to discussing lease and the BMW Lease Incentive

[a14lee]

Everyone who posts a number on the boards here say they are within hundreds of dollars to a thousand dollars of invoice pricing. With the 2010 MY coming up, and the fact that these are cars sitting on the dealer's lot, eating up money by not being sold, you could definitely get a very competitive price. There's a post on bimmerfest.com that is stickied containing the BMW confidential wholesale pricing. I would go there, download it, and calculate the invoice for each car using that sheet and then negotiate them down to within hundreds of dollars of invoice to base your lease on. Those prices advertised are too high. I used that sheet to calculate the ~42k invoice price on the first car you posted about.

I don't know anything about how leases work, so can't help you there. But you can definitely get the selling price on those cars way down. Good luck!

[Nas23]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I tried with each dealer, and went in with the Invoice Numbers from BMW (over at Bimmerfest), and Edmunds. I tried to get the numbers at various dealers before showing them quotes from the dealers I had talked to. And that was the best each dealer could do. So I'm in a tight bind if I want to beat that deal. I'm not sure if these dealers are actually selling their cars or not.

I am paying less than the True Market Value by Edmunds, meaning others are paying on average, more than I would. However, I was hoping to be closer to Invoice.

Thanks so much for your input. I may seal the deal tomorrow. Will keep you guys updated.

[Angry3]

Originally Posted by Nas23

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I tried with each dealer, and went in with the Invoice Numbers from BMW (over at Bimmerfest), and Edmunds. I tried to get the numbers at various dealers before showing them quotes from the dealers I had talked to. And that was the best each dealer could do. So I'm in a tight bind if I want to beat that deal. I'm not sure if these dealers are actually selling their cars or not.

I am paying less than the True Market Value by Edmunds, meaning others are paying on average, more than I would. However, I was hoping to be closer to Invoice.

Thanks so much for your input. I may seal the deal tomorrow. Will keep you guys updated.

Getting a deal is all about leverage. If they know you need a car or are hot to have it, the price stays up. If you are patient and let them come back to you, the price will fall.

But you can't be in the showroom slobbering all over the car and expect to get the best price

If it were me I would let them know you're going to continue to shop around. The price will get better, trust me. Being at the end of the month may help to.

Of course if you badly want that particular car, and want it now, you have to meet their price.

For an in-stock 328 I wouldn't pay much above invoice. They need to move units. Be patient and see what happens.

[Nas23]

Thanks.

I have been in no rush, but the lease rates at the moment seem better than earlier this year. I would *guess* they would be better for 2010 models. That said, I found the color combo/option combo I want, and I've been waiting a while to find this color/combo.

I have learned a lot through this process, and how I handled negotiations in the past. Definitely think I've done a much better job this time around. Not showing anxiety, shopping around for months actually (new and used), and doing my homework.

[Johndong888]

Glad you didn't go thru with the loaner. When I first started, I looked at the 328 and same options and what not, the total came out to be 41,698. That was for an order vehicle with 0 miles. And comfort access too. I ditched on it though.

Anyways, those prices are high, go with car number 2 and aim for 44,001.00

DO NOT put any downpayments on the lease, in fact, put as little as you can in. MSD are fine if they lower your rates.

IMO, waiting is time wasted when you could be enjoying. Besides for the facelift, the side mirriors are hideous. You could get leftovers later in the year but they're probably have quite a bit of test drive miles, that's not different than buying a loaner.

[Edit] Or car 3 hehe

[samchoi604]

Like everyone else said, stay away. Cough up a few thousand dollars more to order a new one with 0 miles, or get a new one already on the lot. Trust me, you'll never be at ease knowing your car was a demo, driven and abused by dozens of people before you. Whenever the slightest problem pops up, you'll regret.. and before you know it, you want to sell the car ASAP.