[MKE_M3]

Perhaps we should have a "make the case for your tune in one post" sticky where Vishnu, BMS, Dinan, and who ever else can write a 100 word post on why that particular tune, and can post up to 3 dynos for that particular tune, one on 91/93 octane vs. stock would be required.

This will get rid of the weekly "Who's best" post, keep the discussion clear and relatively concise, and give easier access to Dynos for comparison. There could even be a disclosure at the top...

"This dyno shows lower number that that dyno. It's the delta, not the number." type stuff.

Just a thought.

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

theres already hundreds of these posts. People that ask such simple questions can find answers just by looking at the first 5 pages of the turbo forum

[I335]

Don't know how popular this will be, but if they do it, I think the rule should be that each can talk about their tune only and not mention other tunes (even indirectly) at all. Also, I think you're missing one of the most important qualities - smoothness & overall driveablility. A dyno number is just one part of the story and really doesn't say much about which tune is best. I'd much prefer a 70hp tune that is extra smooth to a 120hp tune that is rough and peaky...

[enrita]

Originally Posted by I335

Don't know how popular this will be, but if they do it, I think the rule should be that each can talk about their tune only and not mention other tunes (even indirectly) at all. Also, I think you're missing one of the most important qualities - smoothness & overall driveablility. A dyno number is just one part of the story and really doesn't say much about which tune is best. I'd much prefer a 70hp tune that is extra smooth to a 120hp tune that is rough and peaky...

People should try some cars flashed in the proper way to realize this.
Everybody that tried my car was stunned by the power and smoothness of the flash compaired to their piggy.

[MKE_M3]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

Jb3 is inexpensive raw power. PROcede is more expensive but better controlled albeit a little less power. Done.

I appreciate brevity, but I think the topic is a little more involved than that. Or maybe not!?! Besides, those are just two of the dozen popular options.

[usc335]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

Not many people go with dinan or giac. And the tuner wars here on the forum only involve jb3 and procede.

- jb3 is faster and cheaper no question. And is easier and cheaper to update.

- procede has more features including safety, can-bus integration and clears codes on its own. Its more expensive to buy and to update.

They are both really similar. One has more features and one has a better price. The only question is, is the features that the procede has worth the extra cost? For me, no, it wasnt. jb3 with a bt tool is cheaper, easy to remove, and gives big gains. Thats what I wanted. Nothing the procede has was worth the extra money.

I would never notice the 200+ parameters that the procede monitors and in a few years when I sell the car, I doubt there will be any negative effects by not having them. I do notice the extra money I saved thats going toward coilovers though. If the procede was the exact same price as the jb3, well thats something I would have had to strongly consider.

The jb3 is cheaper, but the PROcede is way easier to update. Hmmm, update via USB cable in my glovebox vs. removing the cowling to replace a chip you have to burn? Yes, I'm a PROcede owner and I intend to keep my car many years and past 100k miles. Maybe that's the difference between you and me.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I would never notice the 200+ parameters that the procede monitors and in a few years when I sell the car, I doubt there will be any negative effects by not having them.

Currently, if you have a 6MT, you'd notice the advantages of reading some of those 200+ CANbus parameters. Monitoring and triggering events based upon actual throttle angle the reason why our throttle delay fix works as well as it does.

And without access to these CANbus parameters, proper custom tuning would not be possible either right now. And a properly custom tuned PROcede will, without a doubt, make more power than any other tuning option. Period.

And in two weeks, you will see another CANbus-related software update which will result in another major performance leap with both 6ATs and 6MTs.

So yes, having access to those 200+ parameters is indeed a benefit. And it will be more and more of a benefit as time goes by. I've even said from the start that the code reading/clearing feature of the PROcede is just a convenience. The big deal will be with what we are, and what we will be doing, with the tune itself.

Shiv

[stratplaya06]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

And in two weeks, you will see another CANbus-related software update which will result in another major performance leap with both 6ATs and 6MTs.

In regards to the idea, there will inherently be bias in every review. There is simply no way around it. The the JB reviews will have the usual "makes better numbers, and is cheaper" argument, and the procede reviews will have the usual "canbus advantages etc." arguments.

Each tune has its respective benefits, and I think for most, cost is a huge issue here. There is no denying the procede has more control over what is going on, as it has the canbus access, but I think to some those benefits don't outweigh the price difference.

In the end, it is an opinion thing. As said before, if the tunes were the exact same price, things might be different.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

Jb3 is inexpensive raw power. PROcede is more expensive but better controlled albeit a little less power. Done.

I think that used to be true with say JB3 1.2 software, but the 1.4 has a very refined side also. And just wait until you guys see what BMS is doing with the 2.0 user adjustment. It's going to be really slick.

Mike

[TurboSid]

Here comes another tuner war thread....

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by usc335

The jb3 is cheaper, but the PROcede is way easier to update. Hmmm, update via USB cable in my glovebox vs. removing the cowling to replace a chip you have to burn? Yes, I'm a PROcede owner and I intend to keep my car many years and past 100k miles. Maybe that's the difference between you and me.

USB logging, tuning, and map loading coming soon to the JB3.

Mike

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

Originally Posted by stratplaya06

In regards to the idea, there will inherently be bias in every review. There is simply no way around it. The the JB reviews will have the usual "makes better numbers, and is cheaper" argument, and the procede reviews will have the usual "canbus advantages etc." arguments.

Each tune has its respective benefits, and I think for most, cost is a huge issue here. There is no denying the procede has more control over what is going on, as it has the canbus access, but I think to some those benefits don't outweigh the price difference.

In the end, it is an opinion thing. As said before, if the tunes were the exact same price, things might be different.

Perfectly said. Everyone should quote this to answer anymore of these "vs." and "which tune is best" threads.

[usc335]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

USB logging, tuning, and map loading coming soon to the JB3.

Mike

I always knew Terry had PROcede envy. So much for all of the "marketing" about the "advantages" of not having map loading via laptop, logging, user adjustables, etc. Always say that what you can't do isn't necessary and overly complicated.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by usc335

I always knew Terry had PROcede envy. So much for all of the "marketing" about the "advantages" of not having map loading via laptop, logging, user adjustables, etc. Always say that what you can't do isn't necessary and overly complicated.

The JB3 map system is great and that isn't going to change. But there are some customers who want custom tuning, have a laptop, etc, and I see no reason those customers can't use a JB3 also. The more features the better as far as I'm concerned. Especially when they are free!

mike