[BMW //MPOWER]

Originally Posted by zenderm3

Mate,

You have an awesome current car... I have a loan '04 325ci.... it isn't too bad... but it is an AT and I really think it would be much better as a MT!

Agreed, MT all the way.
Although i think awesome is a bit of an overstatement compared to the e92 m3 your waiting on, now that is a car that is right up near the top of my list of things to step into next...

[zenderm3]

Originally Posted by BMW //MPOWER

Agreed, MT all the way.
Although i think awesome is a bit of an overstatement compared to the e92 m3 your waiting on, now that is a car that is right up near the top of my list of things to step into next...

Thanks mate. Appreciate it. Since ordering a BMW, I've been driving a lot of the Euro brands due to the amount of tinme I've had to borrow/loan the car for...

BMW definitely makes one of the best vehicles... and the 325ci is a great car... lot of respect for the looks and the drivability...

[Zen]

Originally Posted by BMW //MPOWER

The smartest thing i was ever told by a dealership employee was recently when i took the new z4 for a test drive with one of the mechanics (as all the sales reps were busy), "i'd buy a boxster over one of these anyday".

Hahaha, that is just gold.

Sorry to the OP that we've hijacked this thread a bit.

[BMW //MPOWER]

Originally Posted by Zen

Hahaha, that is just gold.

Sorry to the OP that we've hijacked this thread a bit.

Hey, the man wasn't wrong, for a car i desperately wanted to fall in love with the new z4 is a pig, the basic boxster really is in a completely different league to it whilst having a lower price tag.

[KingClifton]

FWIW I just ordered a 320d after considering a 323i. The 323i's starting price is attractive and there are some 6-cyl-only features which I'd have liked, but with Sport and Innovations on the 320d, you are still not paying LCT versus paying > $5K LCT on an equivalent 323i.

[samchuang33]

Originally Posted by KingClifton

FWIW I just ordered a 320d after considering a 323i. The 323i's starting price is attractive and there are some 6-cyl-only features which I'd have liked, but with Sport and Innovations on the 320d, you are still not paying LCT versus paying > $5K LCT on an equivalent 323i.

Hence BMW is trying to run out the 323i because it is harder to sell compare to 320d.

[BMW //MPOWER]

Originally Posted by samchuang33

Hence BMW is trying to run out the 323i because it is harder to sell compare to 320d.

I also recall that the 323i is being discontinued in Australia...

[samchuang33]

Originally Posted by BMW //MPOWER

I also recall that the 323i is being discontinued in Australia...

Really!? 323 has the same engine as the 325 right but re-tuned right?! Just wondering if it is hard to re-tune 323i to have the same power as 325.

[KingClifton]

I'd heard that too - in fact I think it was a previous forum post. So they're either clearing out inventory (or excess allocation) or this is a serious attempt at repositioning the car as a true entry-level six. The spec is still reasonably generous and if it weren't for the LCT problem (320d with same options gets no LCT - 323i attracts $5K worth) it has some useful features like the enhanced DSC, cruise control braking and optional shift paddles, none of which are on the 320d or 320i.

My dealer reckons most people either go 320d or up to the 325i, but there are still those who insist on petrol but don't want to go to the 325i.

[BMW //MPOWER]

Originally Posted by samchuang33

Really!? 323 has the same engine as the 325 right but re-tuned right?! Just wondering if it is hard to re-tune 323i to have the same power as 325.

Correct, but i think there was also a difference with the intakes, which made the retune difficult. It makes sense dropping the 323i though as it's too close to the 325i (well the MT 323i is quicker than the AT 325i) so people find it not worth the jump up in price for jack all performance gain.

Originally Posted by KingClifton

I'd heard that too - in fact I think it was a previous forum post. So they're either clearing out inventory (or excess allocation) or this is a serious attempt at repositioning the car as a true entry-level six. The spec is still reasonably generous and if it weren't for the LCT problem (320d with same options gets no LCT - 323i attracts $5K worth) it has some useful features like the enhanced DSC, cruise control braking and optional shift paddles, none of which are on the 320d or 320i.

My dealer reckons most people either go 320d or up to the 325i, but there are still those who insist on petrol but don't want to go to the 325i.

I never got the point of the 323i & 325i, i thought they should've done what they did with the e46 early in it's like, namely have the 323i & 328i (detuned 3.0 -> it's available in the states) & the 335i which provides a much better structure to the range, especially for those who don't want a turbo. The alternative model structure would've been to have the 325i 330i & 335i which flows even better & provides similarly good segmentation between them all.

[KingClifton]

Initially the range made sense - reasonable $ separation along E46 lines, but IMHO it got complicated by:

- 320d getting power upgrades and becoming the model of choice (great power/torque and fuel economy) for those without a 6-cyl bias
- the LCT (and subsequent changes) disproportionately affecting the range i.e. base 320i and 323i attracting LCT, but 320d Sport Innovations Sunroof etc etc getting no LCT.

The gap I see is for a diesel between the 320d and 330d. Bring in a 325d with the detuned 3-litre diesel used in other markets, and replace the 330d with the 335d (in line with what they did with the 330i/335i).

[John_01]

Originally Posted by BMW //MPOWER

Correct, but i think there was also a difference with the intakes, which made the retune difficult. It makes sense dropping the 323i though as it's too close to the 325i (well the MT 323i is quicker than the AT 325i) so people find it not worth the jump up in price for jack all performance gain..

What your are saying about intake manifold tuning certainly applies to the 325i and 328i sold in the US. However, looking carefully at the realoem website I can't see any difference between the part list for the current 325i and 323i. So I am starting to suspect it might only be a difference in software.

Originally Posted by BMW //MPOWER

I never got the point of the 323i & 325i, i thought they should've done what they did with the e46 early in it's like, namely have the 323i & 328i (detuned 3.0 -> it's available in the states) & the 335i which provides a much better structure to the range, especially for those who don't want a turbo. The alternative model structure would've been to have the 325i 330i & 335i which flows even better & provides similarly good segmentation between them all.

Totally agree. I think it is a great pity that BMW Australia don't import the 3 litre NA six. The 3.0 has more torque than the 2.5 litre motors which makes it well suited to Australian conditions. For a while I was waiting for them to introduce either 328i or 330i to Australia, but I got sick of waiting and bought a 325i. I am very heistant to buy a turbo engine car, because I would expect to have problems over a 10+ year ownership period.

[bcoz]

Originally Posted by KingClifton

The spec is still reasonably generous and if it weren't for the LCT problem (320d with same options gets no LCT - 323i attracts $5K worth) it has some useful features like the enhanced DSC, cruise control braking and optional shift paddles, none of which are on the 320d or 320i.

Don't forget that the 323i sedan also had a price drop on 1 Sept from $63,200 to $58,300 (and sales have tripled since). Before then, the price gap was $10K!

It makes sense IF they run it out and then discontinue it. That way they can ditch the 5-year old N52 2.5L engine used in the 323i/325i, and reposition the 325i using the newer N53 3.0L engine they use in the 125i, and in 325s in Europe.

[BMW //MPOWER]

Originally Posted by bcoz

Don't forget that the 323i sedan also had a price drop on 1 Sept from $63,200 to $58,300 (and sales have tripled since). Before then, the price gap was $10K!

It makes sense IF they run it out and then discontinue it. That way they can ditch the 5-year old N52 2.5L engine used in the 323i/325i, and reposition the 325i using the newer N53 3.0L engine they use in the 125i, and in 325s in Europe.

You do realise the N54 in the 335i, is simply the M54 from the E46 with 2 turbo's added yeah? Not the N52 that was in the e90 330i.

[John_01]

Originally Posted by bcoz

It makes sense IF they run it out and then discontinue it. That way they can ditch the 5-year old N52 2.5L engine used in the 323i/325i, and reposition the 325i using the newer N53 3.0L engine they use in the 125i, and in 325s in Europe.

That would be a logical move. However the 125i in Australia and US are both N52 3.0 litre. N53 is only sold in Europe currently. BMW have previously anounced they can't sell N53 engines in Australia or US due too much fuel impurities including sulfur. Maybe this will change. The strange thing is they are selling the N54 engine with direct injection. Although I don't know how similar it is to the direct injection on N53 engines. Since Holden can bring direct injection to the market, perhaps BMW could take another look at it.

[M series]

Originally Posted by KingClifton

FWIW I just ordered a 320d after considering a 323i. The 323i's starting price is attractive and there are some 6-cyl-only features which I'd have liked, but with Sport and Innovations on the 320d, you are still not paying LCT versus paying > $5K LCT on an equivalent 323i.

I love the banter on 320d vs 323i

Hey Kingclifton, can I ask you how much you paid for 320d?

Im sure someone out there can tell us exactly how they detune the 325i to become the 323i...I'd be interested if i was to buy the 323i thats for sure.

Im not convinced the 323i is being phased out...too much of a jump to 325i

[Zen]

Originally Posted by M series

I love the banter on 320d vs 323i

Hey Kingclifton, can I ask you how much you paid for 320d?

Im sure someone out there can tell us exactly how they detune the 325i to become the 323i...I'd be interested if i was to buy the 323i thats for sure.

Im not convinced the 323i is being phased out...too much of a jump to 325i

It was being phased out for the E92s. I don't think it'll be phased out for the E90 yet.

[JamieA]

There was another thread on this a while ago.

The general consensus was that it was a software thing.

Funny thing though is that the 323 and 325 have exactly the same fuel economy. I bet they didn't take bits off the engine like they did with the 3.0 because it probably made the emissions go up to a level that wouldn't meet regulations - wild speculation I know, but it makes sense as to why BMW would go the more expensive route of detuning with software, rather than simply leaving bits off and saving costs...

My $0.02, I wouldn't get the 323 personally, I would try and get the 325. When you add back the options they strip out in the 323, you kinda get to the same price point as the 325, but with less performance. When I bought there was only the 320, 325 and 330, so the choice was much simpler, just buy what you could afford

[zenderm3]

Originally Posted by JamieA

There was another thread on this a while ago.

The general consensus was that it was a software thing.

Funny thing though is that the 323 and 325 have exactly the same fuel economy. I bet they didn't take bits off the engine like they did with the 3.0 because it probably made the emissions go up to a level that wouldn't meet regulations - wild speculation I know, but it makes sense as to why BMW would go the more expensive route of detuning with software, rather than simply leaving bits off and saving costs...

My $0.02, I wouldn't get the 323 personally, I would try and get the 325. When you add back the options they strip out in the 323, you kinda get to the same price point as the 325, but with less performance. When I bought there was only the 320, 325 and 330, so the choice was much simpler, just buy what you could afford

OT: Jamie.. how do you find the 325i?

[WOPALX]

There was a guy in Canada I think that changed the throttle body and updated his software to get 325 specs out of his 320/323. Pretty sure that was the only main difference apart from software.

Maybe do a search on real oem to see what part numbers differ between the 2 models to work out what has been done.

[funky_chilli]

we have a 323i and my gf's bro has a 320D

tbh the 320D is punchier and the 323i is kinda slow.

i wanted to buy the 325i instead but my gf wanted the 323i coz it was cheaper...lol

it's her car anyway so whatever haha I'll just have to get into a 325 or 335 coupe when I change cars next to piss her off haha

[zenderm3]

nice one chilli!