[Moderato]

Originally Posted by Panoz

You just cant stand the thought that the 335i is performing better than m3 on the (this) track...thats your problem.
Its yor right to believe what you want but the numbers proves differently.

The 335i also put up practically the same times as the Cayman on this track. So what does that tell you about the conditions of this test? Wasn't there an E46 M3 SMG which posted a better time then the 335i on this track? So what does that tell you? Everything about this test is misleading, and those who are uninformed will draw incorrect conclusions from looking at these numbers and looking at the way the bar graph is set up. For me, the numbers from the Nurburgring are a much better standard to go by when comparing. Results from tests like this should be taken for what they're worth and that's it.

To answer your other question, the 335i was already out when I bought my 06 M3. If I wanted one I would've got one especially considering it was cheaper and I knew it was going to very close in performance to the E46 M3 just like the E36 M3 vs. the E46 330i. I actually like the 335i, and all BMW's in general for that matter. Although on paper the 335i and the M3 post similar times they are very different cars with very different characteristics, and I base that on what I've read because I haven't driven a 335i but the overwhelming amount of written testimonials make it safe to assume certain characteristics about the 335i. First of all let me say that I think the exterior design of the 335i is awesome, front to back I like just about everything. The engine is amazing, for what it is. From the accounts I've read it seems to make Turbo-Diesel like TQ (I have a good amount of experience driving these here and in Europe) and petrol like HP. Is that better then the S54's screaming 8K redline? For me the answer is they are both good, it depends. The handling is surprisingly competent especially considering it weighs more then the E46 M3. One thing that kept me back from getting the 335i was the lack of an LSD. My opinion, my preference. I know the 335i with the open diff is adequate for everyday driving and from the numbers it's adequate for track use as well, but still I prefer having the LSD. The interior of the 335i I just don't like as much as the E46. Things I don't like about the 335 interior: dash, rear console, closed rear windows, less headroom, window controls, driver's door handle. I'm not saying I don't like it compared to other cars, just the E46. I think compared to other cars the E92 interior is better, but I prefer the E46 in this regard. If I couldn't have my E46 M3 for some reason, I would 99% most likely get an E92 335i to replace it or wait for the E92 M3, possibly. The bottom line is 0 - 60, 1/4 mile, & times from a test like this are just part of a long equation when comparing the differences between cars. Two cars can have an identical 0 - 60 time, but the way car A and car B goes about getting that done can be two completely different things. To just look at numbers on paper and deduce that they are the same or one is better then the other, isn't looking at the whole picture. In fact it's looking at a very small part of it.

Congrats to all of you who own the 335i. It's a very nice car, and I really mean that sincerely and with no jealously.

[Panoz]

The test is not missleading at all. Its very simple. Those guys took 40 cars and put them on a track. They recorded all of the car's performances and here you are.

The track is a slow-pace-track that represents somehow the conditions on the "streets" (breaking,accelerating ,turning etc) .Those people had definitely no reason to make 335i look better . Actually they comented that they never expected this car to come so close to "monsters" like AMG SLK ,Z4 M Coupe ,RS4 .

Have a look at the below picture. These are the 0-160-0 "times". This is posssibly what you expected ,as on this test you just accelarate in full-throtle and then bracking (this is a "flat" accelarating & braking procedure). As expected, higher HP cars performes better times.

I hope this convice you that there is no "misslead" on the test and its definitely no BS.

[2007/335i/coupe]

Thanks for posting the track layout and additional information Panoz.

People can draw their own conclusions based on the information Panoz posted. It's nice to see the 335 can hold its own at this track

[Panoz]

I wonder what would the times difference if we used a Xede on the test car...

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Panoz

I wonder what would the times difference if we used a Xede on the test car...

My guess the Xede would be worth perhaps another second, and not more than 1.5 seconds.

Smaller tracks aren't going to show the big HP differentials in times that larger tracks will. Of course, smaller tracks are also much more reprentative of typical twisty back road conditions. I consider smaller tracks to be more represantive of "real life" unless you live in Nevada or Utah in which case you just need a 400 mile long 1/4th mile track

[Ghunger]

Just read through the posts and the thing that really makes me question these tests is the time difference between the Z4 M Coupe and the M3. They have the same engine (S54) and the Z4 is lighter. So how did the M3 beat it by so much? The should have at least been very close, with the edge going to the Z4.

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by Ghunger

Just read through the posts and the thing that really makes me question these tests is the time difference between the Z4 M Coupe and the M3. They have the same engine (S54) and the Z4 is lighter. So how did the M3 beat it by so much? The should have at least been very close, with the edge going to the Z4.

As the driver's commented afterwards....Z4 si more difficult to drive due to the stablity and balance issues.

For instance RS4 is a 4WD with 420 HP that would normaly exterminate the oposition...due to the balance of the car wich is awfuly aligned to 62/38 (or something ) the car could not be benefited from the enormous power into the track. If it was just a straight line ,the results would be different

[2007/335i/coupe]

Now we need skidpad and slalom numbers so everyone can be happy

[wannabefaster]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Pic is great, thanks!

It looks as though the 335's torque and HP ruled the day, notice how in almost every section the 335 takes up more track? It appears to like wider, classic racing arcs as opposed to the point-and-shoot style of say the 350Z, at least in this test.

This track layout reminds me of Gingerman!

It does look eerily like Gingerman. Can't wait to try my 335 out there this summer

[wannabefaster]

I notice above that the 335 has pretty excellent 160 to 0 numbers in spite of its prodigious weight. A lot of people have been raving about the brakes and on a small track great brakes may make as much or more difference than high horsepower. If you can wait an extra split second to brake you are making your lap times quicker.

[Jay@ATP]

Good find. I love how the EVO IX is the 4th car, and the ones above it are 2-5 times more expensive.

[Coyot]

Some more data about the Serres track, in the northern Greek province of Macedonia:
Total lenght 3,186.39 meters (slightly less than a sixth of the 'Ring!)
Longest straight line: 662 meters (a little less than the AntiChrist's number!)
track width 12m - and 15m on the longest straight line
9 right curves
7 left curves
Curves' radiuses ranging from 40 to 100 meters
Curves' turning angles ranging from 30 to 90 degrees, plus one of 180 degrees

More info and sketches (only contact info in English, though) at
http://www.serrescircuit.gr

The track is administered by the Serres town municipality.
I' ve driven in it (OK, one of just 3 tracks I 've ever driven in) and I can tell you it's pretty tough and unforgiving on car weight and car weight distribution.

Sorry about the possibly lousy terminology!

[Maestro]

I agree before looking at these number and trying to draw any conclusions you need to look at all the data.

If you have an understanding of how a car has been designed and setup you can design a course or track that could make that car look great or bad. As you all know there are trade offs made with every car out there, and depending on what you are willing to live with you get certain performance characteristics. It is like putting a drag racer against a NASCAR on an oval track and saying that NASCAR is faster.

What I see is that the 335i is probably the best balance of speed and handling for the money, you can spend more and do worse or spend less and do better, hell the Subaru beat it.

Plus you all miss the point, the BMW X5 with a V12 beat the M3. who in their right mind would race an X5 around a track like nurburgring at the speed they did, I would be afraid the thing would roll over.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Ghunger

Just read through the posts and the thing that really makes me question these tests is the time difference between the Z4 M Coupe and the M3. They have the same engine (S54) and the Z4 is lighter. So how did the M3 beat it by so much? The should have at least been very close, with the edge going to the Z4.

That simple, putting more power in a smaller package is not always faster, if you can not translate the power to the pavement you will not go fasteer. Some times being too light is not good if you can not get the down force to keep the wheels from breaking free. especially into and out of a curves