[undecided]

At least that's what my new car warranty says and what's posted on bmwusa.com

So, the government may inadvertently void all of our warranties by mandating 15% ethanol.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by boom

I personally don't believe the ethanol explanation from BMW regarding the HPFP failures. I heard it was one of the sensors failing and the car blowing the pump b/c the sensor wasn't telling it the right pressure. That is why you're supposed to get new pressure sensors with the HPFP replacement. IIRC it was the low pressure sensor. I also remember when cp-e was posting about experimenting with e85 in the 1addicts section. The car ran fine with up to 50% e85/50% 93 octane. They never had one hpfp problem. E15 gas would be much better for knock. I'm for it.

Ok so it obviously wont happen instantaneously, but I don't know what is so hard to believe. Heck not only will your HPFP be SOL, you can kiss all the engine seals goodbye too. You engine will have the human equivalent of internal bleeding, and you know where that leads to. You see the devil in the details really is all material science. The composites they use on these engines to makes seals cannot withstand organic based fuels. Its simple chemistry really.

Did you see what happened some Ford F250/350 guys who took the ill conceived advice on how to make a cheap converter for their trucks to run E85 fuel during the summer crisis? Well their trucks ran alright. Except the literally poor guys who spent about $500 to save on fuel wound up with serious oil leaks that required engine rebuilds. Apparently the same poor folk (no offense but they already could not afford the damn fuel!) did not realize their gaskets and seals would get dissolved (kind of like eaten) by E85, unless your engine is made for flex fuel, you are asking for huge problems.

[burberry]

that's wack... =T i haven't had a HPFP problem yet, although i've purchase my car used at 50k.... hopefully the problem doesnt come up.. I HOPE....

[vase330]

Originally Posted by burberry

that's wack... =T i haven't had a HPFP problem yet, although i've purchase my car used at 50k.... hopefully the problem doesnt come up.. I HOPE....

You know if the original owner had HPFP problems? Most die way before that. Mine died at 18K miles and I believe I am in trhe upper range of most first failures.

[SnowTech.4]

Alcohol is wonderful because it burns in a very controlled fashion at a low temperature and is therefore naturally a detonatin suppressor.

The possible problem with ethanol in a fuel system designed primarily for petrolium based fuel is that alcohols do not have the natural lubriscity that petrolium products have. So things like injectors and pumps have a harder time if they are always running that liquid with that low level of lubricity.

This is why a water/methanol system is so helpful but simply putting alcohol into fuel can be problematic.

[boom]

Originally Posted by vase330

Ok so it obviously wont happen instantaneously, but I don't know what is so hard to believe. Heck not only will your HPFP be SOL, you can kiss all the engine seals goodbye too. You engine will have the human equivalent of internal bleeding, and you know where that leads to. You see the devil in the details really is all material science. The composites they use on these engines to makes seals cannot withstand organic based fuels. Its simple chemistry really.

Did you see what happened some Ford F250/350 guys who took the ill conceived advice on how to make a cheap converter for their trucks to run E85 fuel during the summer crisis? Well their trucks ran alright. Except the literally poor guys who spent about $500 to save on fuel wound up with serious oil leaks that required engine rebuilds. Apparently the same poor folk (no offense but they already could not afford the damn fuel!) did not realize their gaskets and seals would get dissolved (kind of like eaten) by E85, unless your engine is made for flex fuel, you are asking for huge problems.

That's funny... What part of gasoline is not "organic?" Please actually know some chemistry before describing it.

Originally Posted by SnowTech.4

Alcohol is wonderful because it burns in a very controlled fashion at a low temperature and is therefore naturally a detonatin suppressor.

The possible problem with ethanol in a fuel system designed primarily for petrolium based fuel is that alcohols do not have the natural lubriscity that petrolium products have. So things like injectors and pumps have a harder time if they are always running that liquid with that low level of lubricity.

This is why a water/methanol system is so helpful but simply putting alcohol into fuel can be problematic.

This is valid and a likely why BMW doesn't want alcohol based fuels as their hpfp is lubricated by fuel. Still, I do not buy that fuel with 10-15% alcohol would destroy the hpfp in the small amount of time that owners have reported problems. If it was a wear/lubricity issue they would wear at a similar mileage. Owners have posted repetitive failure even soon after a replacement which indicates another cause for the pump failure, i.e. a sensor failing causing too high or too low pressures (lubricity).

[vase330]

Originally Posted by boom

That's funny... What part of gasoline is not "organic?" Please actually know some chemistry before describing it.
...

Sure you can make the argument that all fuels are organic, you would be right, but your meaning would be lost ion translation. But suspect you already know what I mean. I mean we have the organic foods crazy going on, but all foods are organic! you say.

I am just using terms everyone understands, we are not all scientists, its a layman forum not exactly a science class. BTW I do know the deference. And there is a big one at that. You are getting stuck in the weeds of the detailed definitions of words. You know what I mean. And I was refering to issues such as these, http://biofuelguide.net/precautionar...-your-engines/