[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by catm3

A good rule of thumb is if you are leasing a car...don't mod it.

That's OK for a rule of thumb, but it's not always the case.

[RichP]

The ECU on the E90 logs every damn little thing in these cars. Your power window stutters a little one time? It logs it. Door lock sticky? It logs it. Car stall out unexpectedly (no check engine)? it logs it.

If I didnt know any better, I would say: Shiv ups the boost out of "spec" and the ECU is going to log this, and its going to be a problem. HOWEVER: Shiv doesnt really "up the boost" he just makes the car run more consistent boost across the rev range, which still keeps the "max boost" the car/ECU sees within limits.

Again, as stated, if you cant take the heat (possible warranty denial) stay out of the Vishnu's kitchen.

[Jonn335]

i agree. you are playing with the big boys here if you cant afford to loose your warranty dont modify your car. it is very simple.
if you want to take a wee bit of a chance and turn what is a great car into a super car get on with it, and let us all know what works and what doesnt. it will come out in the wash what works and what doesnt, in the meantime the pioneers must take the risk. just like it has always been.

[Vinobien]

I didn't know that Shiv can cook. Next weekend when he's in Dallas voiding my warranty (ha) while making my car a monster, I'll insist he whip up some of his specialties. I.e... 400 horse stew, burnt rubber salad, Japanese rice ...cooked, and for desert ... Bavarian Mocha Waffles.

[Adham]

Originally Posted by Vinobien

I didn't know that Shiv can cook. Next weekend when he's in Dallas voiding my warranty (ha) while making my car a monster, I'll insist he whip up some of his specialties. I.e... 400 horse stew, burnt rubber salad, Japanese rice ...cooked, and for desert ... Bavarian Mocha Waffles.

I dont get the bavarian mocha waffles ....

[bmargolis]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes, what you quoted is indeed an issue when it comes to reflashing your ECU since doing so does alter the DME code. Even reflashing back to stock will leave traces of tampering. Fortunately, our approach does not modify the ECU in any way. Just the signal that come into and go out of the ECU. And all the signals that are recorded (those going into the ECU) are within normal operating parameters so that they wont raise any red flags if/when looked at.

But Zoeb2s had it right in the end, if you truly are concerned about your warranty above anything else, leave your car stock

Cheers,
shiv

This seems like an appropriate time to jump in... Shiv, would your company consider picking up the warantee on the engine, similar to what Dinan does?

I had a 2001 M Roadster with an S54 motor. It failed in June of 2003, and had been moded with some Dinan parts, including a software upgrade. Now, a fairly high number of S54's had failed, but not so many on Z3's ad M3's. My rev limit was raised to 8,150 with the Dinan software (which they have since rolled back). BMW was an absolute star about replacing my motor quickly, and with no questions. (I was not driving the car hard at failure)

I know that Dinan is a big company and yours is not (yet). I also understand that warrantee's can be very expensive to replace even a few failed motors. I'm sure that Dinan is working hard on a solution for our 335's that will include a warrantee. It's a solid selling point on their behalf. Any plans for that in your future?


Thanks,


ps - thanks for puching the envelope for all of us!

[DrM]

Originally Posted by bmargolis

This seems like an appropriate time to jump in... Shiv, would your company consider picking up the warantee on the engine, similar to what Dinan does?

I had a 2001 M Roadster with an S54 motor. It failed in June of 2003, and had been moded with some Dinan parts, including a software upgrade. Now, a fairly high number of S54's had failed, but not so many on Z3's ad M3's. My rev limit was raised to 8,150 with the Dinan software (which they have since rolled back). BMW was an absolute star about replacing my motor quickly, and with no questions. (I was not driving the car hard at failure)

I know that Dinan is a big company and yours is not (yet). I also understand that warrantee's can be very expensive to replace even a few failed motors. I'm sure that Dinan is working hard on a solution for our 335's that will include a warrantee. It's a solid selling point on their behalf. Any plans for that in your future?


Thanks,


ps - thanks for puching the envelope for all of us!

No offense, but if Shiv says "Yes" to standing behind our warranties, we all need to chip in for a shrink to examine his head. Let's recap the reasons:

1. The XEDE is selling for $1300.
2. It is being sold to enthusiasts who will likely be harder on the equipment than a regular driver.
3. The XEDE is being used on a new engine without an established track record of reliability.
4. There aren't going to be that many XEDE sold. At the rate of 10 per week, they will sell about 500 this year.

With a company the size of Shiv's there is no way that they can personally back the warranty. The other option would be to find an aftermarket company to warranty the product. The odds of that are also low due to the small number of sales and the unproven track record. In short, it would make very little financial sense for him to stand behind it.

Face it. If you buy the XEDE, you are on your own with respect to repairs. If you are not OK with that, then wait for the Dinan and pay the higher price they will charge to cover the cost of the warranty.

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by DrM

No offense, but if Shiv says "Yes" to standing behind our warranties, we all need to chip in for a shrink to examine his head. Let's recap the reasons:

1. The XEDE is selling for $1300.
2. It is being sold to enthusiasts who will likely be harder on the equipment than a regular driver.
3. The XEDE is being used on a new engine without an established track record of reliability.
4. There aren't going to be that many XEDE sold. At the rate of 10 per week, they will sell about 500 this year.

With a company the size of Shiv's there is no way that they can personally back the warranty. The other option would be to find an aftermarket company to warranty the product. The odds of that are also low due to the small number of sales and the unproven track record. In short, it would make very little financial sense for him to stand behind it.

Face it. If you buy the XEDE, you are on your own with respect to repairs. If you are not OK with that, then wait for the Dinan and pay the higher price they will charge to cover the cost of the warranty.

That sums it up well. It would be an extremely poor business decision for Shiv and his group to warranty the motor (a la Dinan).

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by bmargolis

This seems like an appropriate time to jump in... Shiv, would your company consider picking up the warantee on the engine, similar to what Dinan does?

I had a 2001 M Roadster with an S54 motor. It failed in June of 2003, and had been moded with some Dinan parts, including a software upgrade. Now, a fairly high number of S54's had failed, but not so many on Z3's ad M3's. My rev limit was raised to 8,150 with the Dinan software (which they have since rolled back). BMW was an absolute star about replacing my motor quickly, and with no questions. (I was not driving the car hard at failure)

I know that Dinan is a big company and yours is not (yet). I also understand that warrantee's can be very expensive to replace even a few failed motors. I'm sure that Dinan is working hard on a solution for our 335's that will include a warrantee. It's a solid selling point on their behalf. Any plans for that in your future?


Thanks,


ps - thanks for puching the envelope for all of us!

He done answered it.

[Vinobien]

fruit salad

[DrDomer]

I know the ECU isn't changed, but does it log what it sees? If it is constantly "seeing" something different than 99.9% of normal engines, would that raise a red flag? I'm certainly not well informed, but if the ECU logs as much as you say it does, wouldn't it be logging engine parameters that it uses to adjust engine settings?

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

I know the ECU isn't changed, but does it log what it sees? If it is constantly "seeing" something different than 99.9% of normal engines, would that raise a red flag? I'm certainly not well informed, but if the ECU logs as much as you say it does, wouldn't it be logging engine parameters that it uses to adjust engine settings?

If BMW really wanted to they could replicate Shiv's work, see how it works and then know what to look for. It doesn't make alot of sense though since only a very small % of owners will ever do this mod.

[musc]

Originally Posted by matsarge

If BMW really wanted to they could replicate Shiv's work, see how it works and then know what to look for. It doesn't make alot of sense though since only a very small % of owners will ever do this mod.

Or they could make it even easier and just purchase an Xede themselves and test it.

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by catm3

Or they could make it even easier and just purchase an Xede themselves and test it.

If it where most company's engineers I'd say yes. BMW's would take the harder route just for the fun of doing it.

[SROC3]

They probably have purchased a xede already........

[BMWPower06]

u all are talking about the engine failing, to date not a Single Xede car has blown or failed in anyway...

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by BMWPower06

u all are talking about the engine failing, to date not a Single Xede car has blown or failed in anyway...

That's only because it's too early and there's not alot of them out there. No matter how much work Shiv or anyone else for that matter puts into building something, there's basic fact of life that can't be overcome, anything built by man will fail at some point.