335i tuning update: GIAC Stg 1 to PROCEDE V4

zerotohundred · 03-10-2010, 10:30 PM

Hey all,

Recently made the jump from my GIAC stage 1 to a PROCEDE as here in Perth,we only have one GIAC dealer and he's ~110kms away from me. Overall very happy with the switch as i gained 52whp after messing around with the settings for abit.

Settings are basically maxed out,100% User Torque and 0% Ignition Correction. Map is Stage 4+. I know,i know...meth only. But after looking at the AFRs (which were richer than my GIAC tune by some margin) my local tuner mentioned to give it a try. No knocking/timing pulling occured so i can only assume that the local 98octane is very suitable to this map. Gained 10whp over Stage 3+.

Dynos follow.

Baseline when car was bone stock:

Note that the dyno was not done in "Shootout" mode,based on the settings it actually reads a little higher than it should(!). Very disappointed.

GIAC dyno overlayed with PROCEDE Stage 4+ dyno,WHP and TQ:

As you can probably tell by now,the dyno reads heaps low. Not complaining though,the delta tells the story.

GIAC dyno overlayed with PROCEDE Stage 4+ dyno,WHP and AFRs:

This is where it gets interesting. Almost a whole point lower than the GIAC tune and much more power. Yes,i know it runs more boost,but still...imagine what it'd look like if the AFRs on the PROCEDE run were around the 12.1 mark. Tuner reckons a good 20-30whp more.

Unfortunately i only have datalogs from the PROCEDE runs and i can't access them now. I'm still very happy with the exponential increase in responsiveness and power,although i still wish that i could tweak the fuel mixtures to run it just that little bit leaner,even if just to GIAC levels.

Drivetrain mod list:

HKS exhaust
AR Design Catless DPs
STETT CAI
STETT IC
STETT Charge Pipe
PROCEDE V4

All readings are in WHP. For reference,a standard E92 M3 makes slightly under 340whp on this dyno.

MFKN3 · 03-11-2010, 09:46 PM

This doesn't sound good.

Did you datalog the runs and check ignition correction for knock?

Map 4/4+ is for race gas and/or meth for a reason - it pushes around 17.5psi of boost. Have you got a boost gauge?

Also, 0% ign correction will be relying entirely on the factory DME to control knock, which is how the JB3 operates, but sounds scary when pushing your car that hard on pump gas.

The other dyno's I have seen have AFR tapering down to approx 12, not 10.5 and with no spike?

zerotohundred · 03-11-2010, 11:20 PM

Runs have been datalogged - screencaps from first run (Stage 3+,25% ignition correction) and last run (Stage 4+,0% ignition correction) are below.

First run:

Last run:

I realise it all seems odd,especially that Stage 4/4+ isn't a pump gas map. Neither can i explain the spike in AFRs based on the dyno,it doesn't show up in the log!

zerotohundred · 03-11-2010, 11:28 PM

Just had a thought - I believe i'm still running the BMS o2 sim,left it wired in when i hooked up the PROCEDE. Would that stuff the AFR readings...?

MFKN3 · 03-11-2010, 11:50 PM

I don't think it'd make any difference mate.

I had a quick look at two of your logs and I don't think they look ideal. I am by no means an expert though, so perhaps andrew or shiv can chime in?

AFR is 16, so very lean, your timing is being pulled (knock) and your boost is getting as high as 17.6psi. Learning gain looks alright at approx 5%

I'm actually keen to see what someone who knows more about it thinks.

MFKN3 · 03-11-2010, 11:51 PM

When your timing is being pulled, your car will actually perform worse than if it were nice and smooth. For those wondering, timing pull is evident in the sudden dips in the CAN Ign Adv. curve

zerotohundred · 03-12-2010, 12:02 AM

That's the thing - AFRs on the log vs AFRs on the dyno are night and day! Hence the suspicion that the o2 sims may not be playing ball with the PROCEDE. What the DME sees (and feeds to the PROCEDE) may not be entirely ideal...?

MFKN3 · 03-12-2010, 12:10 AM

More than I could tell you I'm afraid! Perhaps someone else can chime in, but my understanding was the O2 sims just stop lambda codes being thrown and setting off the dash warning lights?

zerotohundred · 03-12-2010, 04:57 AM

UPDATE: I removed the BMS o2 sim...and bam,all the AFRs read right. Now on Stage 3+, 100% UT and 65% ignition correction.

A couple of second gear runs:

50% ignition correction

60% ignition correction

Dyno run as soon as i can arrange one. Massive blonde moment here,at least it's solved and running proper

MFKN3 · 03-16-2010, 07:39 PM

Boom! That's looking better and from your logs it looks like 65-70% Ign Cor should be about right. That's what I run too and will revisit the logs once the weather cools down. Look how smooth your boost is.

How does it drive and feel compared to before?

dzenno · 04-22-2010, 03:47 PM

hey, you ever redyno?

zerotohundred · 04-22-2010, 10:46 PM

Actually,yes. I just didn't post up my results as it was pretty conservative - drop timing & boost,less horsepower.

I can't get a hold of the dyno sheet but i made ~20whp less with that tune...even the dyno operator was commenting how different it felt. Interestingly,the AFRs were similar if not richer. Still had the bump at the end too.

I didn't want to post anything until after autotune had been finalised,which at this stage should be soon.

03-10-2010, 10:30 PM	#1
zerotohundred New Member 7 Rep 27 Posts Drives: '11 135i DCT Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Australia iTrader: (0)	335i tuning update: GIAC Stg 1 to PROCEDE V4 Hey all, Recently made the jump from my GIAC stage 1 to a PROCEDE as here in Perth,we only have one GIAC dealer and he's ~110kms away from me. Overall very happy with the switch as i gained 52whp after messing around with the settings for abit. Settings are basically maxed out,100% User Torque and 0% Ignition Correction. Map is Stage 4+. I know,i know...meth only. But after looking at the AFRs (which were richer than my GIAC tune by some margin) my local tuner mentioned to give it a try. No knocking/timing pulling occured so i can only assume that the local 98octane is very suitable to this map. Gained 10whp over Stage 3+. Dynos follow. Baseline when car was bone stock: Note that the dyno was not done in "Shootout" mode,based on the settings it actually reads a little higher than it should(!). Very disappointed. GIAC dyno overlayed with PROCEDE Stage 4+ dyno,WHP and TQ: As you can probably tell by now,the dyno reads heaps low. Not complaining though,the delta tells the story. GIAC dyno overlayed with PROCEDE Stage 4+ dyno,WHP and AFRs: This is where it gets interesting. Almost a whole point lower than the GIAC tune and much more power. Yes,i know it runs more boost,but still...imagine what it'd look like if the AFRs on the PROCEDE run were around the 12.1 mark. Tuner reckons a good 20-30whp more. Unfortunately i only have datalogs from the PROCEDE runs and i can't access them now. I'm still very happy with the exponential increase in responsiveness and power,although i still wish that i could tweak the fuel mixtures to run it just that little bit leaner,even if just to GIAC levels. Drivetrain mod list: HKS exhaust AR Design Catless DPs STETT CAI STETT IC STETT Charge Pipe PROCEDE V4 All readings are in WHP. For reference,a standard E92 M3 makes slightly under 340whp on this dyno. Last edited by zerotohundred; 03-10-2010 at 10:37 PM..
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03-11-2010, 09:46 PM	#2
MFKN3 Colonel 134 Rep 2,224 Posts Drives: supercharged 4.4L stroker E92 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (2)	This doesn't sound good. Did you datalog the runs and check ignition correction for knock? Map 4/4+ is for race gas and/or meth for a reason - it pushes around 17.5psi of boost. Have you got a boost gauge? Also, 0% ign correction will be relying entirely on the factory DME to control knock, which is how the JB3 operates, but sounds scary when pushing your car that hard on pump gas. The other dyno's I have seen have AFR tapering down to approx 12, not 10.5 and with no spike?
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03-11-2010, 11:28 PM	#4
zerotohundred New Member 7 Rep 27 Posts Drives: '11 135i DCT Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Australia iTrader: (0)	Just had a thought - I believe i'm still running the BMS o2 sim,left it wired in when i hooked up the PROCEDE. Would that stuff the AFR readings...?
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03-11-2010, 11:50 PM	#5
MFKN3 Colonel 134 Rep 2,224 Posts Drives: supercharged 4.4L stroker E92 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (2)	I don't think it'd make any difference mate. I had a quick look at two of your logs and I don't think they look ideal. I am by no means an expert though, so perhaps andrew or shiv can chime in? AFR is 16, so very lean, your timing is being pulled (knock) and your boost is getting as high as 17.6psi. Learning gain looks alright at approx 5% I'm actually keen to see what someone who knows more about it thinks.
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03-11-2010, 11:51 PM	#6
MFKN3 Colonel 134 Rep 2,224 Posts Drives: supercharged 4.4L stroker E92 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (2)	When your timing is being pulled, your car will actually perform worse than if it were nice and smooth. For those wondering, timing pull is evident in the sudden dips in the CAN Ign Adv. curve
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03-12-2010, 12:02 AM	#7
zerotohundred New Member 7 Rep 27 Posts Drives: '11 135i DCT Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Australia iTrader: (0)	That's the thing - AFRs on the log vs AFRs on the dyno are night and day! Hence the suspicion that the o2 sims may not be playing ball with the PROCEDE. What the DME sees (and feeds to the PROCEDE) may not be entirely ideal...?
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03-12-2010, 12:10 AM	#8
MFKN3 Colonel 134 Rep 2,224 Posts Drives: supercharged 4.4L stroker E92 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (2)	More than I could tell you I'm afraid! Perhaps someone else can chime in, but my understanding was the O2 sims just stop lambda codes being thrown and setting off the dash warning lights?
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03-16-2010, 07:39 PM	#10
MFKN3 Colonel 134 Rep 2,224 Posts Drives: supercharged 4.4L stroker E92 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (2)	Boom! That's looking better and from your logs it looks like 65-70% Ign Cor should be about right. That's what I run too and will revisit the logs once the weather cools down. Look how smooth your boost is. How does it drive and feel compared to before?
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04-22-2010, 03:47 PM	#11
dzenno Banned 286 Rep 5,876 Posts Drives: Join Date: Feb 2006 iTrader: (1)	hey, you ever redyno?
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04-22-2010, 10:46 PM	#12
zerotohundred New Member 7 Rep 27 Posts Drives: '11 135i DCT Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Australia iTrader: (0)	Actually,yes. I just didn't post up my results as it was pretty conservative - drop timing & boost,less horsepower. I can't get a hold of the dyno sheet but i made ~20whp less with that tune...even the dyno operator was commenting how different it felt. Interestingly,the AFRs were similar if not richer. Still had the bump at the end too. I didn't want to post anything until after autotune had been finalised,which at this stage should be soon.
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