[ridin135]

I dont see how those emails change anything. Terry never said anywhere that he had to run racegas and never stated what max boost would be.

[i2iSTUDIOS]

Lesson be learned: tune at your own risk. We arn't dealing with 350 Chevy's here where there are lots of experience there, we are pushing the limits of a realatively new engine.

IMO, if you want a very fast car, buy a very fast car, it's always better to do that.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Everyone can bash Shiv cause he mentioned some problems with judgments made and problems with the tunes hardware and limitation, but he has some good points.

At the end of the day, you gotta pay to play, if you want some guy tuning your car 3000+ miles away on a setup that he cant control 100%.... you get what you get.

Apparently he said to run race gas for safety and some extra meth for safety (did he really say that? IDK), so if it wasnt run then..... there you go. IDK what else to say on that. I never liked race gas or meth as a band-aid for fuel requirements myself.

As Shiv mentioned the DME can only respond so fast to ignition.... Compared to some more pro-active approaches.




When people want closure, they always want to point a finger... be that as it may, everyone is to blame on this.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Well if you bother to read the details what happened it makes more sense. Clearly some are just trying to stir up drama.

Originally Posted by enrita

its unfortunate that someone actually took the time to post something posted by me on high octane whisky (just got the shop partial bill) on the US forums. It is unfortunately that my car just decided to blow without any warnings. It is really stupid i did not put race gas or that i decided to do the runs and that i did not head home ... Damage is done, i am not making a big deal out of it so peace everybody.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by alpinedevil335

Could be one of very many causes. We both know its not the tune ALONE causing this.
According to you what is the "obvious reason"?

As someone mentioned if you bother to read the details you'll find additional things that don't match someone's talking points. Like the fact that one got the codes on a custom low timing flash tune as well indicating a hardware problem, that another had over-boost codes at the same time leading to the ignition glow codes, that another had just been to the dealer and likely had his adaptions reset, and that another was running a map higher than he should have been. The most common cause for ignition glow faults is accidentally selecting too high of a map or accidentally putting in low octane fuel. I've posted similar faults reported from his tuning but again those don't match the talking points and reports of them mysteriously disappear from here for some reason.

This is just basic common sense but if you have an ignition glow code (knock retard) you must stop everything and find the cause. It's rare that I hear about them but when I do there is always a cause and an easy solution.

Mike

[cu_north]

Didn't this person also stack two tunes together at one point? GIAC+JB+?

[vase330]

Originally Posted by alpinedevil335

Quite different

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8610

Yeah you can say that. Fact is engine blown = tune/tuner blamed. Regardless of what customer did. I suggested to shiv a long time back, to put failsafe measures in his tune, to idiot proof it. Why? Well, I thought it would be bad for his business anyone blew their motor running his tune regardless of what he did or didn't do. I am no genius, don't know a whole lot about tunes, but it was easy to see how this can happen.

Second point, Terry (accused tuner) owns that forum. So how impartial is it. Do you fully trust it? Now if Procede did this, and you saw that post on vishnutuning.com (owned by Shiv) would you feel the same? All I am trying to say is, I am not paid by any one of them, and neither am I a fanboi of any, but from a reasonably objective perspective, e90post.com is pretty independent though it does lean Vishnu. But neither of the tuners own e90post. So be careful what you read and where you read it when you draw your conclusions. That is just a suggestion by the way. I wouldn't do what either Enrico or Terry did. They both share the blame IMHO.

[per]

The queastion i am asking myself is how much responsibility does a professional tuner have ?
Isen´t he responsible for the maps he send out and the advice he give.
G-power did blew a couple of engines with there compressor kit because of bad tuning and they did accept resonibilty and replaced the engines, is this so much different.
Any way, we will probably get safer tuners advice and maps in the future because of this engine blew,

[EastCoast335i]

Originally Posted by blacknbean

welcome to the site

[atomicwedgy]

sounds like someone learned the hard way.

gotta pay to play.

How many "canned tunes" are sold at 20+ psi for upgraded turbos and supporting mods?

Consumers request the ability to adjust tuning parameters. Then when something fails they want someone to blame for it.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

This is just basic common sense but if you have an ignition glow code (knock retard) you must stop everything and find the cause. It's rare that I hear about them but when I do there is always a cause and an easy solution.

Mike

Sorry Mike but that is spoken like a salesperson and not an actual tuner. The basic common sense is to offer a tune that actually tunes all required engine parameters. And there are only 3 of them. Relying on a separate control mechanism (DME knock control), that the tuner has no authority over (or even the ability to monitor) is like telling a biker with a flat tire to just "ride slower". Yes, that's common sense as well. But the primary objective is to address/fix the problem. In this case, remapping the ignition timing.

It looks like bms is taking another stab at timing control with the new hardware that is under development. But was resonates with me is that Terry claimed to already offer that when the jb3 was released a couple years ago. Which, understandably, I was suspicious about when I saw the board design. Not to mention emails from jb3 users talking about this "superknock" code that I had never even seen or heard about before. And then when Terry finally admitted the highly touted feature was not offered, hundreds of sales later, the writing was on the wall.

The fact is that bms perpetrated the biggest scam in the n54 tuning field. The only thing more surprising that there were enough users to not understand the significance of Terrys deception. They are understanding now. It would be analogous to selling "built" engines advertised with titanium connecting rods. Only to have them torn down to reveal cast generic rods made in China. Yes, both rods will work. But the latter will show its flaws when the engine is pushed towards the upper end of what is was advertised to do. Just as jb3s are showing now (and have been for quite some time.)

What bms is attempting to do now with there future add on "upgrade" is to resell this titanium rods that should be there in the first place. Rods that were later claimed, by BMS, to be unnecessary upon 3rd party discovery of their absence.

Yes I'm a vendor. But I'm also a tuner. And what bms did would have ended their business in any other tuning market.

Originally Posted by cu_north

Didn't this person also stack two tunes together at one point? GIAC+JB+?

Yes I believe so. And BMS sold and marketed the product for that tune stacking application.

Shiv

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Sorry Mike but that is spoken like a salesperson and not an actual tuner. The basic common sense is to offer a tune that actually tunes all required engine parameters. And there are only 3 of them. Relying on a separate control mechanism (DME knock control), that the tuner has no authority over (or even the ability to monitor) is like telling a biker with a flat tire to just "ride slower". Yes, that's common sense as well. But the primary objective is to address/fix the problem. In this case, remapping the ignition timing.

It looks like bms is taking another stab at timing control with the new hardware that is under development. But was resonates with me is that Terry claimed to already offer that when the jb3 was released a couple years ago. Which, understandably, I was suspicious about when I saw the board design. Not to mention emails from jb3 users talking about this "superknock" code that I had never even seen or heard about before. And then when Terry finally admitted the highly touted feature was not offered, hundreds of sales later, the writing was on the wall.

The fact is that bms perpetrated the biggest scam in the n54 tuning field. The only thing more surprising that there were enough users to not understand the significance of Terrys deception. They are understanding now. It would be analogous to selling "built" engines advertised with titanium connecting rods. Only to have them torn down to reveal cast generic rods made in China. Yes, both rods will work. But the latter will show its flaws when the engine is pushed towards the upper end of what is was advertised to do. Just as jb3s are showing now (and have been for quite some time.)

What bms is attempting to do now with there future add on "upgrade" is to resell this titanium rods that should be there in the first place. Rods that were later claimed, by BMS, to be unnecessary upon 3rd party discovery of their absence.

Yes I'm a vendor. But I'm also a tuner. And what bms did would have ended their business in any other tuning market.

Shiv

Shiv that is just more of your marketing FUD nonsense. I am also really impressed with the amount of time you are spending in JB3 related threads in the last few days.

This has been well covered before but CPS offsetting was removed from BMS' marketing materials months before the first unit was sold in 2008. Yes a couple vendors/resellers copied the 4 month old pre-release notes on their website but they were informed to change them. I was not one of those vendors so I can't comment beyond that, but when it was discovered the outdated materials were removed.

Yes we all know ignition glow codes are dangerous and yes many of your customers have triggered these codes. Advance limiting is not a cure all for ignition glow codes. First with advance limiting in place the ECU still rides the knock threshold system up to the max limit. If you turn boost too high or put in low grade fuel they are very easy to trigger even with your full advance limiter/CPS offset in place. Also in a way CPS offsetting really serves to desensitize the ECU to ignition glow codes as it blocks the ECU from seeing the real timing values. What looks like an ignition drop out in one log could easily be an ignition glow code trigger code if the ECU knew the real timing values were so low.

The reality here is pushing such high power levels as Enrita was doing is uncharted territory. And it is disingenuous for you to come here and pretend none of your customers have damaged short blocks (such as maxboost, VK, etc) and stir up a bunch of FUD. I've read a few posts about your customers pushing 19-20psi on the stock turbos so instead of promoting how they can run the V4 with no duty cycle limiter (e.g. 30FF duty cycle codes disabled) maybe you should be advising them to keep their boost levels more reasonable as well. Many of those customers allow the autotuning to give them almost no advance limiter as the ECU and autotune is lulled in to a false sense of security with the meth. It only takes a small shift boost spike, minor meth distribution problem, temperature change, etc, for things to go bad quickly at extreme levels like these. You know this as well as I do.

Mike

[Bagelfast]

Originally Posted by enrita

Thanks and yes that was inevitable. I was the one raising boost to give an extra kick for the race which turned out not that well.
…
This is my first modded car and my first blown engine, guess i am not a vergin anymore :-)

.....

Nope, i did not have racegas in my tank. i was supposed to drive home without doing pulls but last second i decided to do a couple to see how the m3 was performing .

Its his own fault, running aftermarket coils, turbos, spark plugs, etc. and pushing the engine extra hard with non proven parts isnt the best thing to do.
Terry gave him advice, enrita wanted to push the engine harder didnt take Terry's advice, and this is what happened. His engine blew.

He is mad, i would be myself... But it is his own fault and this is what happens when, you want to push the engine, and have alot of unknown parts on your car.

[Bagelfast]

Originally Posted by per

The queastion i am asking myself is how much responsibility does a professional tuner have ?
Isen´t he responsible for the maps he send out and the advice he give.
G-power did blew a couple of engines with there compressor kit because of bad tuning and they did accept resonibilty and replaced the engines, is this so much different.
Any way, we will probably get safer tuners advice and maps in the future because of this engine blew,

The owner himself is responsible here.. The plugs, turbos and other stuff are things that have never been tryed and used on the N54, he was doing it for the first time. It is either a fail or it would work. It did work, but because he wanted to push it really hard he blew a piston. He got advice from his tuner, he didnt take it all, and his tuning was not done prior to him racing his car and this is what happened.

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by alpinedevil335

Your right I wouldnt trust Shiv!...Lets get to the why..
There has been numerous cases where forum members posts are deleted because the statements are unfavorable to Shiv and his company. E90 more than "LEANS" toward shiv and vishnu. So im sure they MORE than EDIT what they would post. He has a history of being shady.
Never once has there been a case where posts are deleted on n54tec or BB.
So yeah I would trust Terry over shiv based on how they carry themselves on forums.

Lets see how long it takes for this one to get deleted.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone should respect that, even if not justified. such is life

It is your right to trust Terry more, even after he led everyone to believe for quite some time that his tune did have timing control (contrary to what Mike is saying above. BTW, I like Mike, even if he is a vendor for a shady company, he got me the Helix intercooler and AR oil cooler. To me it's business) and only had to come clean after Scalbert did bench testing!

Just saying, no need to agree with me.

[bryans2k]

I've tuned many of my cars in the past with various standalone's and piggyback's. I've also ran the JB3 before.

Those e-mails just confirm the amount of information (lack of) that this BMW community has about these type's of modifications.

I believe he should've educated the customer on what he was getting into regardless of what he "assumed" the customer knew. You don't hand a person a gun and just because they know that it's a gun assume they know how to handle it.

That's just poor in every sense of the word plus some but some people have to learn the hard way so that others will hopefully not have to. I suggest everyone read this and learn from this guys misplaced trust and lack of self education on something very expensive.

You can't fix stupid with more stupid.

:

[Bagelfast]

Originally Posted by kenneth

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone should respect that, even if not justified. such is life

It is your right to trust Terry more, even after he led everyone to believe for quite some time that his tune did have timing control (contrary to what Mike is saying above. BTW, I like Mike, even if he is a vendor for a shady company, he got me the Helix intercooler and AR oil cooler. To me it's business) and only had to come clean after Scalbert did bench testing!

Just saying, no need to agree with me.

Im sure no1 will with your misleading posts.

[dzenno]

There'a a few problems with certain members on these forums and I think these ppl need to either try to understand the following or STFU:

1) A lot of ppl on this board are pathetically attached to a tuner in some sick unexplainable way without clearly thinking through the facts. Threads like "e90post rulz" and "n54tech forum is da shiite" are not for grownups

2) These people have to understand that marketing from both sides is extremely aggressive. You need to try to learn and recognize and avoid being sucked into "marketing driven" discussions and try to weed out core technical details and then if you're willing and able try to understand THOSE details and then make your decisions in an informed/educated way, not because you're infatuated with your particular tuner's marketing/love posts/whatever have you.

3) Stop participating in tuner wars UNLESS you understand the technology behind it because you're ALWAYS quick to point fingers at this/that tuner, this/that forum, when in fact there's some of us on here who're trying to LEARN and make educated/informed decisions when tuning their cars.

I have to say I'm personally guilty of FLASHING all the mods I've purchased in a signature on forums, saying THIS tune, THAT downpipe, THAT FMIC...you're serving as free advertising boards with no cash incentives back...that's ok but at least for your own sake, TRY to understand what/how something you're changing on your car is working at least at a high level, understand the risks and try to STAY ON TOPIC!!

peace!

[onefastman]

+1

The reason I support terry is because of his service, it has nothing to do with his tune. Just that I like him, so there is a difference between supporting a tune and a person. They are not the same!
Which is why I stay out of these threads (posting that is) becuase I dont know enough about it to make a meaningful contribution.

Originally Posted by dzenno

There'a a few problems with certain members on these forums and I think these ppl need to either try to understand the following or STFU:

1) A lot of ppl on this board are pathetically attached to a tuner in some sick unexplainable way without clearly thinking through the facts. Threads like "e90post rulz" and "n54tech forum is da shiite" are not for grownups

2) These people have to understand that marketing from both sides is extremely aggressive. You need to try to learn and recognize and avoid being sucked into "marketing driven" discussions and try to weed out core technical details and then if you're willing and able try to understand THOSE details and then make your decisions in an informed/educated way, not because you're infatuated with your particular tuner's marketing/love posts/whatever have you.

3) Stop participating in tuner wars UNLESS you understand the technology behind it because you're ALWAYS quick to point fingers at this/that tuner, this/that forum, when in fact there's some of us on here who're trying to LEARN and make educated/informed decisions when tuning their cars.

I have to say I'm personally guilty of FLASHING all the mods I've purchased in a signature on forums, saying THIS tune, THAT downpipe, THAT FMIC...you're serving as free advertising boards with no cash incentives back...that's ok but at least for your own sake, TRY to understand what/how something you're changing on your car is working at least at a high level, understand the risks and try to STAY ON TOPIC!!

peace!

[e.n335]

thread could be misleading and is closed according to request of enrita.