[AussieZ3]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I agree BMW makes a couple engines that are great, especially the s54, s65, s85 engines, but they dont hold a candle to very top tier of engines out there.

Perhaps you should be on the judging panel, and educate the 65 decision makers, and automotive industry professionals on the errors of their ways. They are obviously not as informed as you.

[NewYearsBoy]

adrean8j.. Ya u have a nice car.. I have been have a lot of problems with my car and it is 4 months old... Im just fed up with BMW...

[M3_CSL_E92]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I am very aware of that. You must not understand, as you just made that very clear. You have missed the point entirely. We are not talking about the acceleration figures themselves. We are talking about how much torque is put to the ground! The calculation HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WEIGHT. The N54 may boast more ENGINE Tq than the GT3 but engine tq means jack when it is multiplied via the gear ratio and the final drive ratio, and in that regard, even at a low 3000 rpms, the GT3 makes SIGNIFICANTLY more WHEEL TORQUE than the n54. I could take the HEAVIER e92 M3, which also makes less engine tq than the n54 and show you how it too crushes the n54 for wheel tq even though its a high revving NA engine that people think has no low end punch.
The GT3 is far and away a superior engine to everything BMW makes, hands down, no question, bar none.
I agree BMW makes a couple engines that are great, especially the s54, s65, s85 engines, but they dont hold a candle to very top tier of engines out there.

Ok the reason i replied was because you compared performance numbers between the cars (2 seconds faster etc.) Wich doesn´t mean shit when were talking about two different cars but i get your point.

Although you mucst be joking again. the GT3 engine is not superior to every BMW engine out there, you must be joking.

Making the best engines in the world is something BMW is known for. It´s not something that´s made up.
Most of the classes BMW makes engines in they make the one with most power and with the highest MPG, the smoothest, etc. just better then the rest most of the time.

Porsche makes great engines no doubt but BMW has the edge here. Saying anything else is just nonsense.

And they got a shit load of engine of year awards to back it up.

Even Ferrari had a hard time surpassing the mighty V12 BMW made 1991 and even though they managed to produce a stronger engine, the Mclaren is still the fastest n/a car in the world.

And remember that Ferrari made their enzo 2004. That´s 13 years between these cars.

It would be silly to underestimate BMW when it comes to engines, that´s what they do best and that´s what they are known for.

And another thing. You know the big four motorcycle makers who´s been building superbikes for ages.
BMW releases their first and it puts out about 20hp more than the closest rival.
Will the other makers respond by building an engine like that with it´s 14.000rpm limit? i think not.

[ghosthi32]

fanboys will love this stuff.

[chemgeek]

People, this is an engine competition, not a 335/135 HPFP competition. Yes, HPFP die, no question. In fact, I had multiple HPFPs, injectors, gauges, sensors all died on a 2008 335...the car was lemoned. In the end, I loved the car/engine so much, I got myself another one.

[Kinzer S13GT]

Originally Posted by chemgeek

People, this is an engine competition, not a 335/135 HPFP competition. Yes, HPFP die, no question. In fact, I had multiple HPFPs, injectors, gauges, sensors all died on a 2008 335...the car was lemoned. In the end, I loved the car/engine so much, I got myself another one.

...YEAH YEAH!! Thats what its all about!!
It doesn't even matter how much those peripheral units break, the cars are so fantastic to drive, its like; "FUCK IT, I STILL WANT ONE!!!" lmao!!!

[Kinzer S13GT]

Originally Posted by M3_CSL_E92

Ok the reason i replied was because you compared performance numbers between the cars (2 seconds faster etc.) Wich doesn´t mean shit when were talking about two different cars but i get your point.

Although you mucst be joking again. the GT3 engine is not superior to every BMW engine out there, you must be joking.

Making the best engines in the world is something BMW is known for. It´s not something that´s made up.
Most of the classes BMW makes engines in they make the one with most power and with the highest MPG, the smoothest, etc. just better then the rest most of the time.

Porsche makes great engines no doubt but BMW has the edge here. Saying anything else is just nonsense.

And they got a shit load of engine of year awards to back it up.

Even Ferrari had a hard time surpassing the mighty V12 BMW made 1991 and even though they managed to produce a stronger engine, the Mclaren is still the fastest n/a car in the world.

And remember that Ferrari made their enzo 2004. That´s 13 years between these cars.

It would be silly to underestimate BMW when it comes to engines, that´s what they do best and that´s what they are known for.

And another thing. You know the big four motorcycle makers who´s been building superbikes for ages.
BMW releases their first and it puts out about 20hp more than the closest rival.
Will the other makers respond by building an engine like that with it´s 14.000rpm limit? i think not.

(...didn't I just say this yesterday! lol)

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! Very well stated.
BMW is and always has been, an engine builder! TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE!!
They invented the TOP TIER!!!
..By the way "Shift@Red", the torque multiplication numbers also mean jack! Because that multiplication comes AFTER the engine. Not from it.
It was an engine comparison, not an engine/transmission comparison!

[yemenmocha]

Originally Posted by shift@red

LOL! Are you kidding me?? First of all, I have driven every US variation of the GT3 except for the 997.2 GT3 RS in nearly every situation and I can tell you if you think the n54 has more tq you know nothing about engines. Have you ever heard of tq multiplication and/or tq to the wheels? I suggest you read up and do the calculations and then speak. Here's a hint, take engine tq, multiply it by the gear ratio and then the final drive ratio. The GT3, for an NA engine has a lot of low end punch. Its quite obvious YOU have never driven one. It doesnt need to be thrashed like the s65 to be rewarding, and has a top end that the s65 cant touch let alone the lackluster top end of the n54 that run out of steam after 5500 rpms. It will only continuously pull harder the higher you rev to 8400 rpms.
And as far as sound goes, the GT3 is the best sounding car this side of a Ferrari v8 and the other flat 6s also crush most other cars as far as sound.
Heres some info for you

GT3 50-70 MPH = 1.9 seconds
N54 (335i) 50-70 = 4.1 seconds (or 2.1 seconds slower than the GT3) what happened to all that tq?

Heres a tq example for you: both 6mt's and wheel tq produced in 3rd gear

GT3: Wheel tq at in 3rd gear
295 X 1.64 X 3.44 = 1664.X

335i: Wheel tq in 3rd gear
300 X 1.58 X 3.08 = 1459.X

So despite taking wheel tq at an rpm where you would THINK the n54 is pulling hard, the GT3 STILL puts down 205 wheel tq more and pulls MUCH harder. And that difference would be much greater using the GT3 RS instead.

This makes sense and I, too, think there's no doubt the GT3 motor is superior. But you know, this is a BMW forum populated by a lot of fanboys so your points will fall on deaf ears. I love BMW's too (especially my M3) but I know when to give the nod to another manufacturer.

[Kinzer S13GT]

...in the performance category, the N54 came in scoring, below the Porsche GT3, and tied with the Ferrari V12.

[iceman335]

Wow, N54>GT3 3.8?? You must be kidding me...Some ppl should create a site call fanboypost.com.

[iceman335]

Originally Posted by keanu1

No wins for x5/x6 m engine?!! hmmmm!!

If just talk about engine, I think MB's new M157 beats the TT4.4L...

[graider]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Sorry, but the GT3 motor is far superior to any motor BMW makes, hands down.

personally, I think the c6 z06 engine are superior to the s65 or gt3 motors. it is the same weight or lighter, make way more hp, more torque, and doing 28-30mpg on the highway, and extremely reliable without those rsm crab issue on the gt3 engine. easy to mod/fix too.

porsche just simply take a race engine and put on the street for the gt3. then the fanboy start going on every bmw forum and brag left and right everytime. well anyone can do that..bmw can just put the v8 on the m3 alms on the street too..i heard it made well in exceed of 500hp without air restricter for a 4L...but at what cost? m3 -60k vs gt3 - 120k. see what I mean?

saying gt3 motor better than anything bmw make just show how much of a porche fanboy you are, mclaren f1 engine, bmw f1 engine, etc? if porsche was a superior engine builder, I'm sure mclaren would have choose porsche instead of bmw. sometimes i wonder if you and footie work for the same company. now that audi/vw owns porsche.

remember there is always a trade off. i'm sure the s65 will last you 200k miles if maintain properly as seen with the e46 m3 engine. bmw detune this engine for a reason....long term reliability. I highly doubt the gt3 engine can last that long....that's why you don't see gt3 with that much miles. even the one with low miles already have serious rsm, seal issues. that's what happen when you put a race engine on the street.

talking about best engine...i think honda is the king. nobody can make a high performance engine and super reliable like honda.

[keanu1]

Originally Posted by iceman335

If just talk about engine, I think MB's new M157 beats the TT4.4L...

perhaps!! But i got used to bmw winning with every new motor they develop!!
Soo.. You understand!! I'm not saying that this engine should win because those guys know better!!

Anyway , this thread is transformed now from engine of the year to fuel injection mallfuction to bmw vs porsche engines!!

I don't think porsche engines are better than bmw engines or the other way around because they are focused on different targets!!
They build different engines for different kind of cars!!
I don't think there is a car in porsche line that can really compete with a bmw car!!
They are very different!!

[M3_CSL_E92]

Originally Posted by iceman335

Wow, N54>GT3 3.8?? You must be kidding me...Some ppl should create a site call fanboypost.com.

Wow you must be kidding me, som people should actually read abit more than just posting nonsense like you.

Nobody has said that the N54 is superior to the GT3 engine.

I´ve just been saying that nobody touches BMW when it comes down to engines.

Porsche is known for making some of the most succesful racecars on this planet.

BMW is known for making the best engines in the world, doesn´t matter what type of engine it is. This is not something that´s made up. Instead you should be proud that you drive a BMW. This is not a fanboy comment - It´s the truth.

I am by no means saying that Porsche engines har crap and what not, they just don´t have the edge when it comes to engines. I´m actually schocked that i had to make this clear.

You have to consider that it´s a difference when your building an engine for a sportscar like, Corvette or 911 compared to a 3-series or the M3 in this case. All of these engines are now runnin in ALMS and 24H races like Nurburgring and Le Mans.

(I´m not a fanboy, i love porsches and think they are a step up to BMW in terms of dynamics, performance, build-quality etc. and corvette (although forget the build-quality part). but engine wise, there´s not many who is as good as BMW)

[adrean8j]

Ok lets fix these senseless arguments once and for all (this year at least). Did anyone actually READ the website?

First in the "Performance Engine" category the Porsche 3.8 Flat Six came 2nd. The N54 came 3rd.

In the 3litre-4litre category the e92 M3's V8 came 1st. The Porsche 3.8 Flat Six came 2nd.

In the 2.5litre-3litre category the N54 came in 1st. The Porsche 2.9 Flat Six came in 5th.

If we are going to discuss this lets put it in the proper context and category.

The Porsche Engine DID beat the BMW n54 in the Performance Category.
But in the N54's displacement category it is top-dog and Porsche could not touch it.
Now we can discuss with the facts in place....

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by ghosthi32

fanboys will love this stuff.

+1

Give me a 997 GT3(that engine still doesn't have DI, for a reason.) MkII over ANY BMW anytime.To hell with their 'superior' engines.

Cheers
Robin

[graider]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Im not even going to respond to any of this, except the GT3 is a GT1 block engine, go read up on it, its one of the toughest and most reliable engine blocks ever made. GT3s can take abuse like no other and the only reason you would see low miles is because they are mostly weekend cars. Its certainly been tested enough and is IIRC the most succeesful engine in motorsport history.
RMS issues are about as common as the rod bearing issue on the s54. you have NEVER owned a Porsche, so you have no experience. I have never has a single problem with any of my Porsche 911's or their sports cars in general. So until you go buy one, and actually experience a problem, your opinions hold no weight.

again this is just your opinion. you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean other don't with their 911. you own a gt3?

[Norsk]

That N54 is indeed quite a pleasant experience